According to The Springfield Journal-Register:
Brian Carlwell, 19, a 6-foot-11 freshman center, was in critical condition Tuesday morning at an Urbana hospital, according to Carle Foundation Hospital spokeswoman Debra Inman. He had a severe concussion, Illinois sports information director Kent Brown said.
Jamar Smith, 19, a 6-foot-3 sophomore guard, was treated and released from the hospital. He suffered a concussion, Brown said.
A swift recovery to you, Brian, and to all others who have met with tragedy on the roads.
We must also take special care to tend to all of those for whom cold weather is a deadly threat.
I have always thought "critical" condition was the worst - near death, worse than "serious" - is that true? "Critical" scares me.
RSW,
I think virtually everyone starts out in critical condition these days,as well as in the ICU. I think it's a precaution against complications. I don't want to minimize, but I've heard of people being in the ICU for a day or two and going straight to being released. Is there a doctor in the house?
It seems like that everything that could wrong for Illinois basketball this year has gone wrong.
just state the condition of anyone in ICU as "critical", just as a matter of course? (that rings a bell to me)
upgraded to "serious" condition - great news.
Pictures of what's left of Jamar Smith's car are posted on the "Hoops Forum" section of www.illiniboard.com.
Apparently, they left the scene of the accident and drove back to Smith's Savoy apartment, where authorities were called and arrived.
Our ptayers are with Brian,and it's good to see his condition upgraded.
If it's true Smith left the scene with the car (a Lexus!?) that badly damaged, and with Carlwell having to be obviously messed up, that is a very big problem. It sounds like more than just a skid on snow.
What did the cops do and what will our great State's Attorney do to the driver, Jamar Smith?
Yes, the car is a Lexus, but it is about 10-12 years old....plus, that model of Lexus is comparable to a Toyota Camry.
Reports say Smith was driving, and was treated and released for a "mild concussion".
They've hit him with "improper lane usage". I don't get that.
But what I really don't get is this: anyone who's ever had a concussion can tell you that you don't know what's going on, even though you can function. You can have short-term memory problems, and lousy judgement, but you don't necessarily feel that anything is wrong.There are hints of charging Smith (who again, apparently had a concussion) with leaving the scene of an accident by driving away from it, instead by walking away from it through a major winter storm, leaving his passenger (who is really banged up).
What? No causing a public disturbance? No cruelty to plants?
"What? No causing a public disturbance? No cruelty to plants?"
I sure hope you don't have to say, "What? A DUI?"
But when I say "presumed innocent", I mean exactly that.
Here's the direct link to the photos of Jamar Smith's Lexus:
http://forums.illiniboard.com/boards/showpost.php?b=hoops;pid=19863
Even given the confusion that a concussion may cause, it seems unreasonable to drive this car from the scene of an accident to his apartment in Savoy.
He was too confused to call 911 on his cell phone, but not too confused to get the car away from the tree and find his way home? It just doen't ring true to me.
He has been charged with "improper lane useage" by the UIPD. The courthouse has not been open since the accident. The State's Attorney's office is closed and the Circuit Clerk's office is closed. Time will tell whether the facts merit the filing of additional charges.
The blood they presumable drew at Carle is probably on its way to Springfield for ISP testing, but the hospital would also have samples to test. It is possible that a driver under these apparent circumstances could be charged with leaving the scene of a personal injury accident.
Whether or not this turns out to be a DUI, any amount of alcohol is a zero-tolerance violation for someone under age 21. We just don't know the facts yet.
In our court system he is presumed to be innocent, but there is nothing immoral about wondering whether a public figure may be in trouble.
Here's the relevant code:
(625 ILCS 5/11‑401) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 11‑401)
Sec. 11‑401. Motor vehicle accidents involving death or personal injuries.
(a) The driver of any vehicle involved in a motor vehicle accident resulting in personal injury to or death of any person shall immediately stop such vehicle at the scene of such accident, or as close thereto as possible and shall then forthwith return to, and in every event shall remain at the scene of the accident until the requirements of Section 11‑403 have been fulfilled. Every such stop shall be made without obstructing traffic more than is necessary.
[material deleted]
(b‑1) Any person arrested for violating this Section is subject to chemical testing of his or her blood, breath, or urine for the presence of alcohol, other drug or drugs, intoxicating compound or compounds, or any combination thereof, as provided in Section 11‑501.1, if the testing occurs within 12 hours of the time of the occurrence of the accident that led to his or her arrest. The person's driving privileges are subject to statutory summary suspension under Section 11‑501.1 if he or she fails or refuses to undergo the testing.
For purposes of this Section, personal injury shall mean any injury requiring immediate professional treatment in a medical facility or doctor's office.
(c) Any person failing to comply with paragraph (a) shall be guilty of a Class 4 felony.
he had a concussion. It's hard to explain, but it's perfectly understandable how someone could do what Smith apparently did in his situation, and doing anything else would be asking superhuman ability.
For instance, a concussion victim might not to be able to find his cell phone (which for all we know doesn't exist or is on the moon).It would also be typical for a concussion victim to dial the number he dials most frequently, which might even have been Carlwell's. He might dial 911 (and sound really stupid, too), but that would be unusually aware.
And yet, professional athletes have been known to play their sports for several minutes before anyone sees what is wrong with them. Driving a car requires similar motor skills and reactive judgement, so it's something a concussed person could do (poorly).
The one thing concussion victims are most unlikely to do is realize there's anything wrong with them. They tend not to feel pain very accutely, and keep forgetting that it hurts to do X.
But then, he could be guilty of drunken tree abuse. And that's wrong.
Who IS this Loren Heal? Is he a lawyer with a whole new twist on defending cases? " I left the scene of a personal injury accident beucause I had a concussion!" .
Or, "I didn't bother using a cell phone, and I drove home, and I left my buddy in the car, and I didn't bother calling the cops, and it took First Responders a half hour to get him out, but all I did was hit a tree and everything else was because I had a concussion, so even if I was drunk I'm still innocent because I had a concussion!".
Wow. If I ever get in a hit and run with major injuries, drinking or not, I'm calling Heal to defend me, but I'll never get in a car with him.
Judging by Loren's post about Chief Illiniwek, he seems to be one of these people who tries to make a case for absolutely anything.
The facts may not be there, but he'll find a way to go from Point A to Point B, even if he has to create some new letters to do it.
And I'll go out on a limb: I don't think Jamar Smith's cell phone was on the moon.
lampooned. Yup, you tore me up with that one.
No, I'm not a lawyer. And if Smith turns out to have been drinking, I will want him punished for it and for driving after doing so. By the team and by the law, as needed. Clear?
However, a person with a concussion just isn't responsible for their actions, to the severity of the concussion, any more than is someone who has been drugged without their consent. The snowstorm is a mitigating factor both on the initial traffic violation and on the decision not to stay at the scene. It is (if anything) a compounding factor in any hypothetical alcohol use, since adverse conditions make driving hard enough.
If you are ever in a hit and run with major injuries, I would expect to give you the same benefit of the doubt that I do Smith.
And I don't let anonymous bloggers in my car, so you can feel safe.
You are not a lawyer yet you offer advice and opinions as if you were
"However, a person with a concussion just isn't responsible for their actions, to the severity of the concussion, any more than is someone who has been drugged without their consent. The snowstorm is a mitigating factor both on the initial traffic violation and on the decision not to stay at the scene."
Where do you get that, CSI? Law and Order? Maybe because it's a concussion you are flouting your medical skills obtained from WebMD?
625 ILCS 5/11-401
Leaving the scene of a personal injury accident is a Class A misdemeanor meaning up to a year in jail and up to a $2,500.00 fine.
Failure to report an accident involving bodily injury (Smith did not report it, a neighbor called the cops) is a Class 4 FELONY, from 1 to 3 years in PRISON. Nowhere does it say that if you go home to collect your thoughts because you have a concussion are you exempt.
It's not "lampoon", it's mis-stating the law. As you say, you are not a lawyer, and I assume NOT in law enforcement.
But you have an OPINION, even though it's based on TV, or dime novels, or what you would wish for.
You accuse me of lawyering without a license, yet you are citing statutes without regard to whether they apply. That section doesn't mention concussions because it is meant to be applied by lawyers who understand its application, and filtered as needed through juries who apply common sense.
The law doesn't consist solely of statutes; case law and common law also apply. I know this from years and years of being a citizen.
If one is unconscious, should he be punished for not reporting the accident that caused the injury? The law you cite is completely silent on that, so by your reasoning failure to report being knocked unconscious should land a comatose person "in PRISON".
Citing a bare statute is a little like quoting from a dictionary: it' isn't conclusive.
Re-read 401 (b). if hospitialzed AND incapacitated ...in no case later than one hour after being discharged from the hospotal ...
Driving home is not "hospitialzed AND incapacitated", the requirement is to report "as soon as possible but in no case later than one hour ... ."
Unfortuneatly, Smith didn't report, his neighbor did. His report, if any, after the neighbor's call, is too late. This is not a question of who called the cops on the cell phone first, the driver or a witness, this is a driver GOING HOME with a critically injured passenger and not calling the cops. And calling an ambulance, if in fact he did call an ambulance, isn't the same as calling the police. Calling the police, or physically going to the police station or sheriff's office nearest the scene, is what is required. Or, it's a felony. Common sense applies. We don't want people covering their tracks, we don't want damaged cars and injured people out there, we do want the police to be able to investigate all the facts and circumstances unencumbered by altering "crime" scenes. And it was a crime, because Smith got at least one ticket. The tree didn't jump out into the road you know. Law enforcement.
Innocent until proven guilty is one thing, but when the facts (so far) clearly show an additional crime (leaving the scene of a personal injury accident (a) and failure to report (b) it is hard to understand why the police haven't charged it, and why the State's Attorney hasn't charged it. This is the U of I police, not the Champaign Police Department, or the Sheriff's Office. Cover up maybe? Remember Luther Head? CPD was very aggresive in its investigation of Head and the State's Attorney at the time wouldn't charge. At least Head was only a bumbling burglar, he didn't nearly kill someone. What now for Smith, a pass because he was "confused"?
It has been established that Jamar Smith suffered a concussion.
I don't claim to know, from a legal standpoint, whether that establishes mitigating circumstances or not. However, I can tell you from personal experience -- yes, a concussion sustained in an autombile accident -- that I'm glad I wasn't held responsible for my actions after suffering the concussion. I didn't do anything illegal, just embarassing. So I don't understand why Smith's injury wouldn't be taken into account when a decision is made whether to charge him and for what.
There seems to be a presumption of guilt here beyond the obvious driving error. Why?
Innocent until proven guilty is one thing, but when the facts (so far) clearly show
The word "clearly" is most often used when "studies have shown" or "everyone knows" would be too obvious.
Why? Because before it gets spun as poor Jamar, the horrible storm made him bump a tree, it must be considered that serious allegations may be made, and while a concussion might excuse embarrassing behavior, the factors as yet forthcoming just might say Jamar was under the influence of something, and his judgment was impaired before his accident. A serious compounding factor to the generally understood, but not yet proven, leaving the scene of a personal injury accident and failing to report it.
That car was smashed. I understand it took the First Responders a half hour to cut Carlwell out of the car. Do we have any blood test results from Carle ER about Smith and Carlwell? Do you know where they were coming from? That may be a factor. Interview the people that last saw them before the crash.
All I am saying is it's too soon to reach conclusions, and it shouldn't be just passed off as an unfortunate accident. Let the investigation show what it will, but make sure there is a complete investigation, just like for everyone else.
I can only assume you are both women as your arguing is akin to bitch slapping each other in a cat fight. The fact is we know only facts that have been released to us. So arguing about unknown legallity is pointless. Let's worry year the 19 old kid first.
I've met Loren, and he seems like a reasonable guy. I may not agree with all of his opinions, but I'm impressed that he signs his name to his posts. From what I can see, he was suggesting that there was a possibility that there may have been some mitigating circumstances with Smith; he wasn't asserting that Smith had definitely done nothing wrong.
Also, I've met Julia Rietz, though I haven't talked to her at all about this case. From what I understand, she tries to make sure that high-profile defendants are treated the same as everyone else. So I don't expect her to bury the Smith case because he's an athlete, but I don't think she'll use it to grandstand either.
I'm with Heal on this one. And yes, I'm not a lawyer.
It's super fun to second-guess people in horrendous situations and meticulously apply the law, but the spirit of the law is not to kill people for being misfortunate or reckless in snowstorms.
Heal has already said that obviously if Smith was drunk, he should be held accountable for that. Of course, I agree.
What Smith did decide to do--while being incapacited by a concussion--may have saved Carlwell's life, or it may have jeopardized it further--I don't think any of us know for sure which.
News reports are that Smith has gone home to Peoria. Who in the heck is advising this kid? An accident, even where someone gets hurt, and you stick around, go to class, do what you are supposed to do.
On the other hand, if you were smoking dope at Rich McBride's right before you crashed, then maybe blowing town is the smart thing to do.
That's totally true. I don't care if he did anything criminal--he should be locked up just for going home after being in a serious accident in which he was also injured. We should make that law official: If you are injured, you may not visit your loved ones. After her surgery, I assumed that mom just wanted to hang out with me, but now I know the truth--she was smoking dope at Rich McBride's.
"On the other hand, if you were smoking dope at Rich McBride's right before you crashed, then maybe blowing town is the smart thing to do."
This is just stupid, stupid, completely baseless speculation. If he was DUI, how does staying or leaving town impact the charges that will be filed either way? IT DOESN'T!
Please THINK, people, and stop trying to guess based on absolutely no information!
I'm not saying he did or didn't do anything wrong that night - but stop trying to guess and stop assuming the worst when you don't know jack!
It is my job to know jack. If he was some street "brother" you would be all over him. A decent jump shot doesn't a saint make. You'll see soon enough. Head. McBride. Smith.
Not Kendall Gill, not Derek Harper, Kenny Battle, Ken Norman, Deon Thomas, not Brian Cook. This is a new breed where character takes a back seat. Some, Warren Carter for example,seem to still be "old school" in character, but too many are not.
One person's "young person who had a little bad judgment and a concussion" is another person's very bad actor. Time will tell, but the law is supposed to be fair and equal. If it's not, we have anarchy. So we will see.
I'm completely unclear on what distinction you are making. I haven't seen a single person arguing that he should receive lenience because he is a basketball player. We are arguing that judgement ought to be reserved no matter who was in that situation.
IIRC, there was some snow late Monday night, when the accident occurred. I've also had mishaps in the snow - went off the road last year out in the country and figured that the tow fee was an idiocy tax. As far as leaving the scene. I'm not sure what the laws are. Smith didn't make any effort to conceal what had happened, and the weather would have been below freezing and maybe snowing as well. So it's hard to judge at this point.
It is my job to know jack
Funny, it's also the SA's job to know jack, but she's actually planning to review the police reports before making any judgments.
Dealing with the title and first sentence of your screedlet:
If it's your job, put your name on your post. Otherwise, I say you are a coward and a liar, probably an unemployed high school dropout on parole for stalking, with no more standing to judge the character of the young man in question than any other anonymous blog troll.
Show your mettle. Prove me wrong, or quit trying to claim authority without the having integrity to substantiate it.
On the other hand, if Smith were 'some street "brother"', the only thing that's true is that we would never have heard of him. Quit telling other people what they believe, as you merely project your own small-mindedness onto them. Oh, and nice robe, by the way.
Some kids grow up on the wrong side of the tracks. Some grow up on the right side of the tracks, and despite their parents best efforts, never learn how to be people. But some of those are lucky enough to find a mentor, or even a group, who can turn them around. For me, that happened in the Marine Corps. For others, it could be Illinois basketball.
But there I go, projecting too, and lumping people together based on the group to which they belong. Everybody's different, no one is perfect, and I cant believe I'm wasting time feeding trolls.
First of all I'm not a lawyer, I worked for the State in a job that had post crash drug and alcohol testing. I can say that if a drug test was given at the hospital which is SOP in the case of personal injury crashed and lets say it was positive the, the specimen would be sent to an independent lab for a 2nd. test. If the subject tested positive for alcohol from a breathalyzer or blood ,and or urine, a second test would be given. Do people really think the Police are going to tell the subject to go home and continue driving for 4 to 6 weeks while we wait for the test results? If this guy was over the limit the police would have known immediately and the suspension process would have started the 45 day clock until the drivers license of the person would be surrendered this is a State Law as far as I know it. I know the States Attorney is not saying much about this other than an investigation is in progress, The Champaign County States Attorney's Office has been closed because of the snow. Today is Thursday Feb. 15 and we will probably hear more about this as the office gets back to speed. Also Smith could have just as easily taken a test at his own expense but why should He, No charges have been made. Lets hope everyone involved is going to be OK. Ms. Reitz may be doing the out of County test to show that no favoritism exists be cause Smith is some what of a celebrity. Lets wait and see.
On February 15th, 2007 at 12:10 PM, Loren Heal said:
"Dealing with the title and first sentence of your screedlet:
If it's your job, put your name on your post. Otherwise, I say you are a coward and a liar, probably an unemployed high school dropout on parole for stalking, with no more standing to judge the character of the young man in question than any other anonymous blog troll.
Show your mettle. Prove me wrong, or quit trying to claim authority without the having integrity to substantiate it."
I trust I have now proved you wrong, Mr. Heal.
In what way?
I "know jack", I am not some unemployed high school dropout on parole for stalking, I am not a liar, and I obviously have sime standing, because I was right a week ago. The proof of the authority is shown by the events unfolding as I said they would, "concussions" notwithstanding.
Good luck with your unknowing excuse making in the future,
Your guess was correct. So was the guess of the lady in line behind me at the pet food store.
By "excuse making", do you mean my insistence that the accused are innocent until proven guilty, and that in the absence of evidence, I refuse even to accuse? Since you appear to think an accusation proves guilt, I am led to believe that you never passed the Illinois Constitution class, meaning you never graduated high school.
You proved that either you are a lying dropout, or you are in a position to know the facts of the case and violated your ethics and probably the law by revealing information.
Uou refuse identify yourself while claiming the authority of your position. If you don't identify yourself, I will continue to believe that you are a lying troll. If you do identify yourself, we can see whether you are an ethics violator or not.
Either way, I don't think you're very bright.
Maybe I'm not very bright, but I sure did guess well, didn't I?
Innocent until proven guilty is the most important thing. But figuring out pretty quickly that Smith was drunk, left the scene, and would be accused of a felony for doing it is a no-brainer,
Your "concussion" sophistry is what I was objecting to.
Please stop insulting me.
Thank you.