Reverend Soong-Chan Rah and Christian Outreach Racism

Posted March 5th, 2007 at 03:54 PM by xian

My original post was lost in the refresh of the site, but I figured I'd re-post it.

The Reverend Soong-Chan Rah has been a great force for addressing stereotypical and racist materials within the evangelical community. I found his latest engagement particularly uplifting. Links to his blog follow:

The Reverend discovers stereotypical skit:

www.xanga.com/scrah/570928015/rickshaw-rally-redux.html

Skit Guys' response:

www.xanga.com/scrah/572384870/the-skitguys.html

Phone call from one of the Skit Guys:

www.xanga.com/scrah/572553919/update.html

Plea for civility in letters to makers/publisher of skit:

www.xanga.com/scrah/572974642/christian-social-action.html

Publisher's committment:

www.xanga.com/scrah/573197506/significant-commitment-from-youth-specialities.html

Public Apology:

www.xanga.com/scrah/574160161/a-public-apology-from-youth-specialties.html

I really enjoyed reading the Reverend's account of the intervention. There is deep integrity in the way he handled and interacted with both the makers of the racist material and also with people "on his side" who were not upholding the principles he believes in.

I believe that exhibiting empathy and appreciation for others' perspectives is far more effective outreach than any other. So many times, in their own embarassment or narrow-minded view, people will become defensive and act for themselves rather than do what is best for their faith and beliefs.

Anyway, I applaud all involved, and would love to hear other's impressions of the intervention, including other Christians, but also atheists and folks from other faiths.

Thanks!

Oh, BTW--props to the prolific, one-man news service, Angry Asian Man for circulating this story widely.

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IlliniPundit's picture
On March 5th, 2007 at 04:09 PM, IlliniPundit said:

I'm bumping this to the front page as a way of shamelessly sucking up and apologizing to xian for accidentally deleting this post during the server migration.  He'd originally posted it on Sunday, I think.

On March 5th, 2007 at 04:27 PM, xian said:

No worries. Complaining about it would be like complaining that your neighbor who volunteered to fix your sink tracked mud on the floor.

Thanks for your efforts!

On March 5th, 2007 at 08:20 PM, Adam said:

My Chinese wife found the skit amusing, though not particularly racist or offensive. While you can call it stereotypical, its a reasonable accent to give a Chinese delivery guy.

To give him perfect English or something like a British accent would distort reality - that would be offensive.

On March 5th, 2007 at 10:13 PM, xian said:

How many wives do you have?

QueenOfMemphis's picture
On March 5th, 2007 at 11:46 PM, QueenOfMemphis said:

How many wives do you have?

Best bit o' humor I've come across all day.  :)

If we were talking comedy for comedy's sake, I'd probably agree with Adam here. But this is a case of comedy as ministry, and I think ministry needs to keep to the highest standards of kindness and respect. And I can't imagine how use of stereotypes (in any form) promotes those standards.

Thank you for bringing this story to us, Xian. I'm very much impressed with the way Reverend Soong-Chan Rah handled this--or shall I say, how he handles himself.  I can't say it better than you did: I believe that exhibiting empathy and appreciation for others' perspectives is far more effective outreach than any other.

On March 6th, 2007 at 10:05 AM, Adam said:

Is it more respectful to Americanize all foreign characters in plays/skits? Or should foreign characters simply be excluded from all forms of media?

I would appreciate an explanation of why it is racist and offensive to give a Chinese delivery guy an accent typical (maybe even STEREOtypical!) of a Chinese delivery guy.

 

QueenOfMemphis's picture
On March 6th, 2007 at 04:06 PM, QueenOfMemphis said:

All forms of media... that's an awfully big set. I'm not sure I can even wrap my noggin around it. I'm just looking at materials used for spiritual teaching and guidance.

I'm sure I'm not the best person to address this. Being white, I don't have a true understanding of what it feels like to be of a minority race and the insults that can be carelessly or inadvertently cast about. But I'll offer up my own perspective on the thing. 

What I read in the skit isn't simply a foreign character. To my ears, it read like a parody of a foreign character. Spelling out the stereotypical accent is showing kids that the accent itself is funny. That's different than an actor trying to emulate an accent on his own, and it seems mean spirited to me no matter where you find it.

A lot of comedy (most, maybe?) has a slight mean touch to it; and I enjoy comedy immensely. I'm not easily offended; and frankly, I think our entire society could use a little loosening up and taking ourselves less seriously.

But I am also a woman of faith, and I have extraordinarily high expectations of those who engage in religious teachings. If someone claims to know what makes God happy, I expect them to try valiantly to walk what they teach. Kindness and love are core to the Christian faith. Making fun of others isn't very kind and loving.

So some Chinese folks aren't offended by this skit. That's good. It makes me feel more relaxed about the world around me.

But this is a skit designed to teach kids religious values And I think those kinds of lessons should be held to the highest standard.  

 

On March 6th, 2007 at 09:30 PM, xian said:

I'm sorry, but there was nothing "real" about the skit. Many delivery workers may exhibit an accent, but certainly not "fake stereotypical Asian accent".

So basically, people are laughing out of their own ignorance and mocking of others.

What's wrong with that? Not too much, it wouldn't make me think much of someone, but hey, it's a free country.

But I do have serious issues with it in Christian circles. I can just see, "C'mon Jesus, they are loving you, they just think the Son of God has a funny accent!"

On March 6th, 2007 at 10:09 PM, Adam said:

It sounds like you have a problem with people who think that a Chinese accent is funny rather than the skit writers. I still don't see what's wrong with portraying the accent in a skit.

Is there any difference, in your mind Xian, between typical and stereotypical?

Again I ask, what is appropriate for an author / skit writer to do? Just not include any minorities? Or make them all talk and act like white people?

 

On March 6th, 2007 at 11:34 PM, xian said:

Oh, so now speaking without a made-up accent that doesn't really exist constitutes "acting like a white person"? That's great.

I guess I better start mistyping and misspelling lots of sentence if I don't want to be accussed of "acting like white person".

It is appropriate for an author doing loving outreach to not include clearly fake accents in order to mock people of different backgrounds.

Of course there may be a difference between "typical" and "stereotypical". But there is an echo effect where the more a stereotype is circulated, the harder it is to appreciate the reality.

How many people on this blog can name some famous Asian American musical artists? How many have heard of William Hung?

Does that mean that William Hung is typical of Asian American artists?

If your answer is, "Yes", maybe you should go listen to some more artists besides what the mainstream has to provide.

On March 6th, 2007 at 11:35 PM, xian said:

Incidentally, this really was meant to be a thread about Christian empathy. I really didn't expect to have to respond to "Chinese people talk with funny accents" in it. But what can you do?

On March 6th, 2007 at 11:52 PM, Adam said:

Is your concern that the accent wasn't accurate or that there was an accent at all? If it's the former, please provide an example of an acceptable accent to include in the skit.

I don't know what your point is about William Hung. A lot of people know about Yao Ming, but nobody would think that all Chines are seven feet tall.

You "pre-judge" what others will do, and then you react to your own feelings about others by calling them racists.

You and queen think the accent is funny. I think it's close to accurate.

On March 7th, 2007 at 07:55 AM, xian said:

You "pre-judge" what others will do, and then you react to your own feelings about others by calling them racists.

Nope. Haven't done that. There is a huge difference identifying a racist or stereotypical action and calling someone a racist.

I haven't prejudged anything, only evaluated completed actions.

You have asked me a bunch of questions. Let me ask you one:

Is it stereotypical or racist for someone to dress up in black face and talk about eating fried-chicken and watermelon?

What if some guy married to a black woman said that such stereotypes were accurate? Would that be the end-all-be-all?

On March 7th, 2007 at 09:28 AM, Adam said:

I don't think there is anything inherently racist about somebody of a certain ethnicity acting / making themselves look like a person from another ethnicity in a movie/skit/etc. Asians have taped on big noses and pulled their eyes open wide to look like white people in movies and on TV. I don't think that's racist. I don't think it's racist when black actors make themselves look like white women. So, to be consistent, I don't think there is anything inherently racist about somebody making themselves look like they are black.

The black wife wouldn't be the end-all-be-all. But anyone truly interested in other people's feelings and not simply pushing an agenda might want to consider her point of view.

I'll patiently wait for an answer to my question of what is a skit maker to do?

On March 7th, 2007 at 03:10 PM, wayward said:

How many people on this blog can name some famous Asian American musical artists? How many have heard of William Hung?

Hmmm... a famous Asian American musical artist would be Yo Yo Ma.  Hung is more of a comedian.

On March 7th, 2007 at 03:30 PM, xian said:

I agree entirely, wayward, but I have also heard many upstart Asian American artists who faced Hung references when they attempt to break into the mainstream.

Adam, if blackface and yellowface  aarewesome for Christian outreach in your opinion, then we can just agree to disagree.

Have a good one!

On March 7th, 2007 at 11:11 PM, Adam said:

I start a thread on empathy and Christianity two things that I love, and someone takes the opportunity to tell me than when Asian people don't have accents they are "acting Americanized" and that blackface and yellowface displays are awesome. He stops just short of calling me "slant-eyed".

Xian, it's fine that you disagree with me, call me racist, bigoted, ignorant, whatever else. But please, I've never come remotely close to insulting you personally because of your ethnicity. For you to suggest otherwise is dishonest.

And there is a big difference between saying something isn't inherently racist and thinking that it's awesome. I thought I provided several examples of "whiteface" that would demonstrate why I don't think there is anything racist about someone of one ethnicity making themselves look like some one from another ethnicity in a movie in order to portray that character more accurately.

Anyway, I don't mind it when you name-call, but please don't make stuff up about me.

On March 8th, 2007 at 05:40 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
Let’s take a minute and look at stereotyping and decide what it is and is it always a bad thing?
Most stereotyping has its origin in some amount of truth which is statistically validated. Is it stereotyping to say most Black and Orientals are more likely than Finns to have black hair or that Blacks are generally taller and heavier than most other races? Is it stereotyping to say that women in general cry more easily than men? Is it stereotyping to say that Hispanics eat more tortillas in general than other ethnicities?  Is it stereotyping to say that disproportionately Blacks drive Nissan Maxima and Whites mustangs? Now, if we move from neutral statements based on statistics to less neutral statements people want to say this is a negative type of stereotyping when , if it is backed up by statistics which everyone of the following examples are, it is the same thing.. just statements of fact.
 
So here we go. Is it stereotyping to say that Blacks disproportionately commit violent crimes and are on welfare? (Why else does Jessie run in to defend welfare and to limit jail sentences and get the vote for prisoners? Even Jessie Jackson said “it’s sad when I hear footsteps behind me in the night and I turn and hope it’s anybody other than a group of young black males)Is it stereotyping to say that Orientals score higher in general on college entrance tests than other races? Is it stereotyping to say that young male drivers and older drivers of both genders are overall worse drivers than other ages and genders? (Tell it to the underwriters). Is it stereotyping to say that Blacks are better natural athletes (look at the NFL and the NBA) and musicians than other races in general? Is it stereotyping to say that Blacks have worse credit for all levels of income and that whites commit more white color crime?
Is it stereotyping to say that men commit more violent crimes than women or to say white males are more often serial killers than women or other ethnicities?.” If something is a matter of statistical fact is it stereotyping as long as it is qualified as “generally or disproportionately?”)  
 
From here we go to issues like since Blacks are in general more likely to be dangerous than whites (and so to be watched more carefully and to be avoid when alone., do we go so far as to further qualify the situation i.e.  young men tend to be more dangerous than young women and young non professionally dressed black men tend to be the more violent than older or professionally dressed younger Black men.  So is it bigotry or unwarranted stereotyping when a person sees a group of none professionally dressed young black males, and immediately their heart rate and anxiety level go up vs. when they see a group of nonprofessionally dressed oriental males approaching. No it is your brain using statistical information to calculate the risk just as underwriters do when they stereotype young and old and male drivers as the worse drivers based on statistics and therefore charge more for them on the basis of profile alone. I almost lost my life in 1973 when my brain said don’t get in a car with two large, nonprofessionally dressed young black males with fur on their dashboard, a pink Cadillac and  speaking Ebonics.. As it turned out they also had machetes under the seat. I got in because I didn’t want to appear prejudice or even to acknowledge stereotype images in my head and I denied my own self preservation logic that told me this was a more than averagely dangerous situation based on statistics. If these guys had been Jehovah’s witnesses I would have been dealing with a whole different set of statistics. I recognize that these two guys might have been the most decent people in the world however, just like hang gliding is more dangerous than tennis (and therefore more expensive to get insurance) statistically and pit bulls more dangerous than poodles,, two inner city young black males have a greater chance of being more dangerous than other stereotypical individuals like two women of any race, old people of any race and say Orientals. OF course, there are many pit bulls than are friendly and some poodles that bite however 90%+ of the people who know anything about dogs are going to be more leery of the pit-bull. We could just as easily discuss the chances of a serial killer being a woman or black vs. a white male.
 
 Most people cannot dispute that stereotyping often has a basis is some amount of general truth. We don’t for instance stereotype Orientals as being very athletic because they are not disproportionately so. We don’t stereotype old people as having vile language and driving fast cars because they don’t in general. We do stereotype them as talking a lot about their health problems. Even my Jewish friends will say “Jews tend to be very money oriented and often tight disproportionately’” Now that is a taboo to say but there is truth in general and it is also said of “Finns” in the upper Midwest and that is what I am. There are 100s of jokes about the tight Finns with some basis I may add.
 
So why is everyone so freaked out by a “stereotypical” characteristic like” the stingy Jew” or the “naturally musically talented Black” (r u saying Black people can only jump and sing) or the “brainy Oriental” (do u mean Orientals are all about brains and no heart?” It is such a mind game we play with Political correctness dancing around the obvious. The DA at Duke didn’t want to stereotype a Black prostitute (who had lied before) but him and others didn’t mind stereotyping the “white rich boys” because whites, Christians, red-necks and Blondes are still fair game for stereotyping as can be determined by what jokes u can still pass around the office and not get fired for. The DA in the of the O.J Simpson case did not want to believe that Blacks would disproportionately vote on the basis of race on a jury (only Whites do that )and so he set out to prove the opposite and ended up confirming what we already suspected.
 
No doubt stereotyping has been used and still is (see above) to vilify whole groups of people. The funny thing is it is often those who decry stereotyping the most that love to portray themselves as part of a group with collective grievances, histories, needs, hurts, opinions etc when it is advantageous. They are individuals when that suits them but members of a group with the same qualities as the rest of the group when that suits them. In fact, if you are a member of these groups and don’t fit the stereotype i.e.  a Black must be a liberal democrat, speaks Ebonics and like jazz and blues, drive maxima, and eat soul food. If you are a Black and conservative, like country western and drive a mustang, and surf and drive a VW van, you will be considered an  out of the box outcast  and called an Oreo,( if Native American you will be an apple. ). My best friend is an Oreo and my God how she has taken non stop harassment from other Blacks because of the white car she drives, the way she votes and the country western music she listens to. She is not admired for her non stereotypical preferences but rather tormented for them. The very people who denounce stereotyping live and die by it and some wont even associate with her because she doesn’t fit the stereotypical mold. Mind boggling?
 
Stereotyping in and of itself is not the problem it is a natural usage of the experience and knowledge we have to assess everything from the safety of a situation, to the potential enjoyment of something, to economic success etc. Who hasn’t avoided parking their car on a dark street in a poor neighborhood and looked for a lighted area on a better street? Why? Is it bigoted to feel your car is more in danger in a poor neighborhood?
 
 The problem with stereotyping comes when 1. The stereotypical characteristic is inaccurate and just exists to degrade a particular group (with the mass media this happens more often than it did when people based their opinions on personal experience. 2.) When we refuse to allow our growing knowledge of the individual member of a certain group to alter that stereotype and to allow the individual to rise above or sink below the particular stereotype issue for that group. When this happens, what is really a natural aide to survival becomes bigotry. It is like saying all Blacks are athletic and if you come across one who not they is must not be trying act. Or if you come across a woman who doesn’t cry a lot she must be a lesbian because that is a more consistent attribute for that group. 
 
Misuse of stereotyping has led to an attempt to deny legitimate statically based differences between people. But, as I almost learned the hard way, statistical knowledge can be very useful and we are in fact employing cataloging and generalizing as a tool constantly about people, objects, places (who isn’t more afraid in a high crime neighborhood vs. a low crime one) etc and the denial of the legitimacy of any type of stereotyping is not only confusing it is disingenuous. It might also cost you your life as it did mine.
 
QueenOfMemphis's picture
On March 8th, 2007 at 02:41 PM, QueenOfMemphis said:

When two black guys dress up as white chicks and the movie is called “White Chicks,” that’s the joke: two black guys trying to act like white chicks. The characters draw from stereotypes of rich white girls, and I think it’s a pretty funny movie. But no one in the viewing audience believes for a minute that these two guys really want to convince us that they’re white or that they’re women. It’s just a funny foundation for a movie’s worth of jokes.

 

When Gene Wilder smears shoe polish on his face and launches into one of the most ridiculous imitations of a black guy ever to be captured on film, that’s the joke right there. He’s a stiff-spined white guy who’s trying to “act black,” and doing a mighty poor job of it. I think it's hilarious.

 

When a comedian on stage tells a story, he’ll likely try to imitate accents and gestures of his characters--that’s good storytelling. And he’ll probably exaggerate or even caricaturize at times--that’s comedy. Maybe some of the targets of his imitation find it offensive, but if it’s part of his routine, that’s free speech.

 

In this case, we have an adolescent member of a Christian youth group assigned the role of “Chinese Delivery Guy.” It's not an essential character. There are no lessons surrounding his role. He just gets to make the pu pu jokes that will make the other kids laugh. I just think giving him a script that phonetically spells out mispronunciations and other language errors so that he thinks he "sounds Chinese" (and by misguided extension, sounds more humorous) is at odds with the Christian ideals these skits are trying to teach and reinforce.

 

On March 8th, 2007 at 09:31 PM, xian said:

Thank you, Queen. I agree 100% on why there is a degree of difference between a comedian performing that skit and someone having Christian youth do so. There is no function and the only likely functional outcome is that racial stereotyping of people of Chinese descent occurs. I don't think that's a goal of Christian outreach. At least I can say it's not the Christian outreach I know.

As to your examples: I don't think that "White Chicks" is funny. I don't really think it's clever, but I think we can all agree that language and caricature have different impact in different context. If people can't see the difference between two black guys badly dressed as Whites and Long Duk Dong or some yellowface picture, they probably don't know anything about the demographics of media representation.

 

When a comedian on stage tells a story, he’ll likely try to imitate accents and gestures of his characters--that’s good storytelling. And he’ll probably exaggerate or even caricaturize at times--that’s comedy. Maybe some of the targets of his imitation find it offensive, but if it’s part of his routine, that’s free speech.

 

Agreed, but it's also their free speech to call him a racist, no talent hack.

 

Anonymous: I appreciate your analysis, but even a so-called "positive" stereotype is oppressive when it is improperly generalized to the individual. Perhaps every white person I've met has said a racial slur toward me and mocked my intelligence, and I might conclude that "the white people I've met are racist" but it's not legitimate to stereotype that to another individual white person. We could do a study that finds that 82.3% of whites are racist, but that still wouldn't help me determine that an individual white person is racist.

 

In the end when those generalizations are used to assume the characteristics of an individual, all stereotypes are damaging. To say that "Asian people test better on Math tests" might be true, but to say, "Asian people are good at math" is probably going to take some freedom away from a kid who wants to be an artist.

 

Furthermore, that's the type of worthless fact that for whatever reason our society pats itself on the back for figuring out. The "Why" questions are always much more interesting and enlightening. "Why do Asians tend to score higher on standardized math tests?" "Why don't they score higher on standardized language tests?"

On March 8th, 2007 at 10:49 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

xian I agree with you and thats why I listed the 2 big misuses or harmful types of sterotyping (the type that is not based in fact and the type that when you meet an individual and they clearlt do not fullfill the sterotype, a biggot will not let it go and will always see that perso thought preduicial eyes.

As for what good it might do to know that orintals test good in Math in general, it would form the basis to study the wjy and how and it might help with giving amath teacher applicatnt.the benefit of the doubt . It is also as a  teacher helpful to remember that orientalsgenerally pick up on Math faster tha  other groups.

 

what I am really trying to do is point out that the words, sterotype and pre-judge are not necessarily racist and they are actually a normal thinking tool and process tht we all ae using horly and daily. representedtitive of a bad situation.the whole PC that has become cnnected with all of this is making people crazy > Essentially people are being called racist for a thought tool that everyone uses, that is totoaly ligitimate and that is not generally racist. the way we are headed iti will be racist to say, Blacks tend to have black hair and brown eyes. Antway, if we talk about these issues we can still keep a lid on racism and get off the backs of nomwla people of  god will. bye , no ill wille  intended

On March 25th, 2007 at 09:19 PM, xian said:

Yeah, I don't think we are too far off from each other. But remember too that someone is called a "murderer" for using a tool such as a hammer that "everyone else uses". It's not just the use that is important, but the nature of the use. Generalization is a human tool, but that does not mean that all uses are good or all uses are bad...