Originally posted in the comments, but here's the News-Gazette article:
A Douglas County sheriff's deputy was shot in a rural area between Villa Grove and Tuscola this morning, and a gunman took hostages later at a bank in Arcola.
Chief Deputy Tommy Martin was injured in the original shooting at midmorning, The News-Gazette has learned. He was taken by ambulance to Carle Foundation Hospital in Urbana, where his condition was undetermined at about 1 p.m.
The incident apparently occurred on county road 1450 N about a quarter-mile east of county road 1050 E, which is about 4 miles straight north of Tuscola, between U.S. 45 and Interstate 57.
Police gave chase and one of those involved then took hostages in First Mid-Illinois Bank & Trust in Arcola.
I hope everyone is OK, and I hope this ends with nobody else getting hurt.
I say send in Mayor Jerry with a giant water cannon that he can later use to fill his fountain....
Heard some rumors about this down at the diner over a late lunch. Fairly shocking for a little town like Arcola. The rumors I heard were all about a bank robbery in progress with hostages, I hadn't heard that it started with a shooting earlier. Hope this doesn't get any uglier. (anon... do you really think that comment was appropriate?)
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Glock21 Op/Ed
The deputy is in Urbana is critical but stable condition.
All hostages have been released except for one.
The standoff continues. Yikes.
Hey Anon 326, How about taking that kind of BS back over to UCIMC, They are a bunch of Cop haters We don't need that kind of posting on here!!!! Let's hope this situation ends safely for all involved, including the idiot that showed no mercy to the Deputy Sheriff that he shot!
If the deputy didn't want to get shot, he should have secured employment elsewhere. I'm sorry he got shot, but it comes with the job.
" If the deputy didn't want to get shot, he should have secured employment elsewhere" That,s about the stupidest thing I have ever read on here!! What the hell is wrong with You??? You need to "Secure " some mental health care! You are one sick S.O.B.
Drop it, please.
Now is not the time.
As of about 6:30 pm the crisis is over, the suspect is in custody at the Douglas County Jail, Let's keep the wounded Deputy in our thoughts,
Tommy Martin is one of the nicest guys I know. I'm praying he recovers.
I put up a compilation of the news of the incident from NG, WCIA, and CNN with links and some info about high speed chases in regards to the ISP policy not to give chase if no violent crime is suspected:
http://glock21.blogspot.com/2007/06/shootings-and-hostages-in-arcola.html
It's extremely redundant to what's already been commented and linked to here already except the high speed pursuit comments (which might be a bit inappropriate given how recently this all occurred). So if interested it's there. If you think it is inappropriate timing to discuss policy policy on such chases I apologize in advance.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
[yawn]
The bad guys have been caught, Arcola is safe now, and Tommy Martin is doing better. It's over.
Now, can anyone tell me WHY Champaign Police went to Arcola, and just how much did it cost the taxpayers of the City of Champaign, especally in overtime pay for those officers that responded?
It had to be in the thousands and thousands of taxpayer dollars.
...dont feed the trolls, dont feed the trolls...
"The bad guys have been caught, Arcola is safe now, and Tommy Martin is doing better. It's over.
Now, can anyone tell me WHY Champaign Police went to Arcola, and just how much did it cost the taxpayers of the City of Champaign, especally in overtime pay for those officers that responded?"
Because the Arcola police and Douglas County Sheriff asked for the assistance for a nearly unique situation?
Because, even if you don't think the CPD was needed, just being on the ground in a situation like that is invaluable experience and training for CPD's officers?
"It had to be in the thousands and thousands of taxpayer dollars."
All the hostages were released safely, with no further injuries at the scene. And hopefully Deputy Martin will be fine. So it was absolutely worth it. Don't you agree?
No, I do not agree. The FBI was there. The Illinois State Police was there. Douglas County and Arcola Police. There was no need to spend CHAMPAIGN citizens tax money.
What next (facetiously) CPD rushes to Chicago for a traffic stop?
It is called mutual aid. Here is the council's approval of it and their reasons behind it. Please stop using every tragic instance to attack the champaign police, it only makes you look petty and vindictive. I am sure that you realize that though because these comments always seem to come from Anonymous(not verified). Lord knows you might need the help of someone else one day and I will hope that you get whatever help you need, regardless of the (minimal) cost to those who provide it.
"No, I do not agree. The FBI was there. The Illinois State Police was there. Douglas County and Arcola Police. There was no need to spend CHAMPAIGN citizens tax money."
Sure there was - if there's ever a similar situation in Champaign, I want CPD to have some experience working will all these folks. If nothing else, this was invaluable training.
"What next (facetiously) CPD rushes to Chicago for a traffic stop?"
You're really comparing a 20-mile trip to Arcola for a shooting and hostage standoff with a 150-mile trip to assist in a traffic stop?
You should really stop now, because the complaint is just looking more and more foolish.
OK, I think I got it. When it's Mark Shelden using a fax machine, or Stephen Kaufmann using U of I postage, or it's TIF money for a fountain, it's bad, evil, "impeach them, fire them, this isn't what the taxpayers should have to pay".
When it's cops driving WAY out of county JUST TO watch the FBI and ISP, and earning a TON of overtime, it's good.
Cops wasting money for services OUTSIDE the county, much less the city, it's good.
When it's nickels and dimes by someone or for something you DON'T like, it's bad.
It's not the wasted tax money, it's WHO is wasting the tax money.
I got it.
When it's cops driving WAY out of county JUST TO watch the FBI and ISP, and earning a TON of overtime, it's good.
Cops wasting money for services OUTSIDE the county, much less the city, it's good.
When it's nickels and dimes by someone or for something you DON'T like, it's bad.
It's not the wasted tax money, it's WHO is wasting the tax money.
Actually, I agree with IP - it sems like a good training opportunity for the police, and mutual aid can be useful for police departments in emergencies. Maybe the next time, it'll be LE in our county that need help in an emergency.
Anonymous, do you agree that the police need to train to handle such matters? If so, then isn't this a unique opportunity to learn how to deal with something like this? Do you complain if law enforcement trains under hypothetical situations? If not, how is this any different?
Mutual aid my grandpa's goat. How many Arcola, Tuscola, Dougllas County, Mattoon, Charleston Police showed up to West Side Park last week? Sure, it would have been nice to have them, but were they here?
Training? Right. If there is a hostage situation in Champaign the ISP takes over anyway. If it's in a bank, the FBI takes over.
CPD driving to Arcola to watch the ISP talk one guy out of a small building isn't training, it's a waste of time. And they aren't patrolling MY streets.
Did the CPD actively get involved? Was the CPD hostage negotiator consulted? Did he do anything? No. No. No.
Nope. Just, "let's jump in Prowler and go get some OT". And it was easy, stand around and gawk OT, to boot.
That is a waste of taxpayers money, but since it's cops doing it, it's ok.
Don't get me wrong, I like cops and think they do a great job. I do want mutual aid, if something big happens in Urbana or Mahomet or St. Joe or Rantoul, CPD should respond to help.
But Arcola? Not in my accounting book.
As I seem to recall, the CPD owns some equipment and has some officers trained to do things that surrounding counties do not. For one, we have the command vehicle with the communications suite that is needed to provide command and control between all the different departments that were involved. We have the unique SWAT vehicle. There are other things as well. So if we have the equipment that's needed, situated closest to the problem, why shouldn't it be deployed? Are you honestly saying that it isn't worth our tax dollars to help our fellow Illinoisans?
Anonymous, any time our officers can participate in or directly observe joint operations it improves our police force. They learn how it's done in the future, they learn the set up, and they also make the personal contacts with other departments that really go a long way towards enabling them to work together.
"Mutual aid my grandpa's goat. How many Arcola, Tuscola, Dougllas County, Mattoon, Charleston Police showed up to West Side Park last week? Sure, it would have been nice to have them, but were they here?"
West side park was over in a matter of minutes. Again, your ignoring the differences is making the argument look very petty.
"Training? Right. If there is a hostage situation in Champaign the ISP takes over anyway. If it's in a bank, the FBI takes over."
But in Arcola, the County Sheriff still played a key role. As would the CPD in Champaign. And, since the FBI and ISP were both present yesterday, how is it a negative for the CPD to observe them in action yesterday?
"CPD driving to Arcola to watch the ISP talk one guy out of a small building isn't training, it's a waste of time. And they aren't patrolling MY streets.
Did the CPD actively get involved? Was the CPD hostage negotiator consulted? Did he do anything? No. No. No."
Sheesh - using that criteria, is there any non-real-life training that you're OK with?
You miss my point, so I'll say it again.
I pay taxes to have cops on MY streets. The situation was well under control by Douglas County and the ISP before CPD went down there.
It's not that cops were there, it's that MY cops, my employees, were there, so they weren't doing what I pay them to do, protect ME, HERE. And on OT, too.
It's MY money. I pay taxes to have police and fire in this town protect me, in this town. It's easy to throw out the 'training" and mutual assistance" canards, and many people will make any excuse to cover cops actions, I don't care if they mace and taser the whole damn town, but when they go off on an adventure out of town, and especially on OT, it ticks me off as a taxpayer. Hire more cops for CPD, fine with me, but they need to police Champaign, not join in the fun somewhere else.
I'm not anti-cop. I'm anti-wasting MY tax money.
Sheesh.
"You miss my point, so I'll say it again.
I pay taxes to have cops on MY streets. The situation was well under control by Douglas County and the ISP before CPD went down there.
It's not that cops were there, it's that MY cops, my employees, were there, so they weren't doing what I pay them to do, protect ME, HERE. And on OT, too."
You've missed my point - being down there helps them do their job up here better. If you won't admit that, then what sort of training would you support?
"I'm not anti-cop. I'm anti-wasting MY tax money.
Sheesh."
They're not wasting your money. God forbid anything like that ever happens up here and we actually have some cops who have trained in and experienced something similar.
You either don't get it, or don't care, so I'll let you have the last word. But any argument that their being there yesterday was a waste of tax dollars is just ridiculous, especially in light of what happened in West Side Park.
Sheesh, indeed.
This not a secret, so I'm not giving anything away here, except for a few not well-known facts, which Anon seems to be lacking in. At the outset the State Police swat team was requested however they have a relatively small team and a large scene requires assistance to control, especially if it takes a long time (like on 95 degree days for instance, when guys if heavy protective gear have stand there all day). They also had a very long response time for various reasons, saying it would take a few hours to get a full team together. The local police in Douglas County made a specific request for assistance for a SWAT team from Champaign County, the closest jurisdiction that has teams of any size/experience. The team that responded was not Champaign’s. It was another local team made up of several county dept’s, which covers the whole county, except for the city of Champaign. That team did play an integral role by covering the "inner perimeter" of the scene, that is placing a cordon of properly equipped officers that are accustomed to working together and who brought a full complement of tools for the job. The inner perimeter is the boundary closest to the scene that provides containment for both outward and inward movement and coverage from a short distance for the contact team, in this case, ISP. Champaign County also provided an ESDA command vehicle, which is a secure radio base that is private, air-conditioned and allows for meetings and coordinated communications between agencies. ISP does not have one of these.
There were also a couple of Champaign Swat officers that arrived early on to assist, again by request. There were also officers from Mattoon present. No officer from Champaign County was there to be trained. They were there as participants and took active rolls
Dane,
Thanks for filling us in - I suspected they were there for more than training, but even if it was "just" training, I still think it would have been worthwhile. As I wrote above - nobody else got hurt, the hostages were released, and the suspects apprehended. In my book, that makes it a very worthwhile expense.
Dear Anon,
I understand your frustration, but it is unwarranted. Let's start at the beginning.
First of all the bomb squad (EOD) was there. That is comprised of Champaign PD and U of I PD officers. Secondly, CPD has not one, but 2 armored cars. One of them is the REGIONAL armored car give to the area under homeland security funding for WMD stuff. CPD stores that armored car. I think that an armored car or two might come in handy in a hostage situation where a bad guy has already shot one copper and shot at another. I believe that the IMC has a lovely photo of it if you would like to see it.
Next moving on to the local personnel. Douglas County has how many deputies??? I don't know exactly, but it ain't a lot. I bet they had no more then 4 guys working at the time If you are going to block off access to 2 square blocks of a city, it takes more then a couple of guys. Okay, so what about Arcola PD. They aren't exactly a big town either. So they probably initially doubled what Douglas County was able to immediately bring to bear. Sure, you are wondering about ISP. If they have to drive through several counties to get to a traffic crash, then they don't exactly have troopers coming out of their ears. I know, it was during the day. The response time would have been better. You ever tried to get a hold of anyone that does shift work? People don't always sit around with their uniforms on (when they should be sleeping) waiting for the next call of a hostage situation where an officer has been shot.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a DOUGLAS COUNTY DEPUTY had been shot. You think that might have reduced the number of officers/deputies/troopers to respond? If you ever have a call of an officer shot, EVERYONE IS GOING TO COME!!!. Just look at the footage from Westside Park. For Gods sake, Gifford PD was there. I am not even really sure where Gifford is (other then Champaign County).
Finally, mutual aid is not a bunch of malarchy. There is a group called ILEAS. It is a state wide mutual aid compact. If something happens in town "A" that is beyond their capability they call ILEAS. ILEAS then calls for officers from the region and statewide if necessary. ILEAS was recently used in a little ol' hurricane lately. Where was that...oh yeah, New Orleans. A bunch of cops from the state went down there to help out....INCLUDING CHAMPAIGN POLICE.
Seriously, let it go...it was the right thing to do and nobody else got hurt. That is all that matters.
If you really want to freak out, try to find out how much overtime is spent on writing reports or sitting in the courthouse waiting to see if they have to testify.
I believe that the IMC has a lovely photo of it if you would like to see it.
Yup. There's even a comment about "SWAT Team or Racist Death Squad?" at http://www.ucimc.org/node/1377&hidden=1
On June 22nd, 2007 at 04:21 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said: "If you [meaning, various other anonymous postings venting about the use of HIS tax dollars for something outside of HIS city] really want to freak out, try to find out how much overtime is spent on writing reports or sitting in the courthouse waiting to see if they have to testify."
But that would defeat being a troll :)
First, does anyone know how many CPD officers were actually there?
To actually add to the discussion, I decided to do some fact checking. While not able to find an open application posting for a CPD officer, I did find one for an opening with UPD (go to Employment Opportunities, then Police - either in Word or PDF format); while obviously not the same agency, the pay rate for a brand new officer would be very similar, i believe, to a just-starting officer with CPD. So, with college credit, a beginning UPD officer would make just under $49k per year. For argument's sake, let's assume a police officer works a 40 hour work week (and we all know they don't, but i couldn't find any total hours worked, just what a typical shift would last - 12 hours). $49k a year...paid every other week, 80 hours a paycheck...carry the 4...divide by the inverse...comes to about $23.56 per hour, rounded up to the next whole cent. So, for this argument, an officer would make about $23.56 an hour. If an officer gets the old chesnut of "time and a half", that means every hour of overtime worked is paid at $35.34.
From the article linked to in the original post (which has changed, by the way, to reflect new information), the standoff at the bank started at some point between 10:38 a.m. (the approximate time that Chief Deputy Martin was shot) and approximately noon (when the first hostages were released). The standoff ended at about 6:35 p.m. From that, we could claim a CPD officer was on "overtime" for 8 hours. I'm working with under assumption that CPD wasn't called right at 10:38 a.m., but a little bit later; and that some time after the suspect was in custody, the CPD officers were "released" back to their home agency, thus ending their "overtime". I'd be willing to continue with an officer getting 8 hours of OT...maybe 10...hell, maybe even 12 or 15 hours. Here ya go:
If Dave or anyone else knows, how many CPD officers were there, we can go and see how much "overtime" the fine taxpayers of Champaign paid. Mind you, the figures above, for hourly rate, are the maximum a beginning officer would be paid per hour. Cops, much like nurses, have work weeks that are much different than the usual, 9 to 5, 40 hours a week. As soon as a normal work-week goes above 40 hours, the rate would begin to drop.
And who knows, maybe CPD officers get comp-time, not OT pay. Then it would be treated just like vacation or sick time; accrued paid time off...
I know my post has a number of assumptions, but i'm actually offering evidence and links, not making wild claims and making poor arguments about time spent away from patrolling the streets of Champaign. There have been a number of posts offering evidence and well thought out ideas disputing the various claims by anonymous posters that this was a waste of HIS tax money; they've even asked reasonable questions to further the debate.
It's a pity those anonymous posters haven't bothered to get their head unstuck from the sand and debate or respond...
HG
I'm SOOOO sick of WAND interrupting network programming, ie the Evening News with so-called breaking local news.
They completely overdo it with the cut-ins, crawls, superimposed weather maps, and other crapola.
Not everything is the JFK assassination or the WTC attacks. Moderation, rednecks, MODERATION.
The last couple of TV sets I bought had a device called a remote control, You can actually change from one channel to another if you don't like what's on !!! It's amazing!
Now this is really disturbing...from the AP wire video section: The suspects in the Arcola incident are linked to a murder in Chicago. Also, towards the end of the video, a sergeant with ISP (i believe, from his uniform) gives more information regarding the shooting of Chief Deputy Martin.
HG
Did you notice those brilliant reporters at the AP put a big red dot on Milwaukee and labeled it Chicago?
PB... it seemed especially strange since they got Arcola right... then again, that was probably the one the map-boy looked up.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
As the mother of one of the hostages, I would like to address the negative comments.
I appreciate the help that the Champaign Police Force gave to the town of Arcola on June 21st. Each and everyone involved helped in bringing my son home after what seemed to be the longest day of our families life. In all, I understand that there where over 250 service personnel on the scene.
I do believe that since these guys were from Chicago, they did have to pass through Champaign County, and as Champaign County and Douglas County do border each other this could have just as well been your City. I would like to think that if Arcola was ever asked for assistance, our small town Police Officers would have done everything in our power to help you.
Douglas County Chief Deputy Tommy Martin was critically injured, his job is to "Serve and Protect", and yes, it does come with the title, but so does a Fireman, a Teacher, a Mother, a Father or a Child.
To the nice young man who said.... (quote), "If the Deputy didn't want to get shot, he should have secured employement elsewhere", I do hope that you never have to feel what I felt that day.
As for your taxpayers money, we as Arcolan's do find time to get off the farm and quite frequently spend our hard earned money in Champaign.
For those of you with human compassion, Thank You from the bottom of my heart for your for the prayers, your thoughts and your support.
To;10:51 AM, Anonymous. I am glad that situation ended the way it did. I hope that poster that you quoted is real proud of his comment! I had one for him immediately after he posted it. Lets keep Deputy Martin in our thoughts and prayers.
Today's online NG has more on the Arcola incidents here.
HG