A little background first… (link)
SOLIDARITY APPEAL: Defend Tukwila Teachers Threatened with Termination for Antiwar Student Walkout
Nov 26, 2007
By Tukwila Teachers and Students Solidarity Committee
*Urgent Call for Solidarity*
Defend Teachers Threatened With Termination for Antiwar Student Walkout
BRIEF BACKGROUND:
On November 16th, over 1,000 students in Washington State walked out to protest the war in Iraq and the presence of military recruiters in public schools. Students at Foster High School in Tukwila, Washington organized and 150 walked out, saying “Money for Schools, Not War.”
Foster students rallied at the school flagpole, marched down to the I-5 overpass, and then marched to the Tukwila City Hall. The march and rally were student generated and entirely peaceful.
In reaction the Tukwila School District has done the following:
- Suspended one Social Studies teacher, Brett Rogers, who supported his students in a student generated democratic movement
- Threatened administrative action against five other teachers
- Threatened to discipline students for exercising their First Amendment Right to free speech
And now for a good-old-fashioned rant. Regardless of your position on the Iraq war, I think everyone can agree that high schoolers taking an interest in politics is good. I think we can also agree that educators, particularly educators who teach subjects like… say… social studies should be encouraging their students to form opinions and be passionate about them. Apathy is the greatest enemy of Democracy, and it reigns supreme in our high schools.
So, at a time in my life when I’m feeling personally just a wee bit frustrated by the system, I get a link from a friend of mine who teaches in the Seattle area, and it frankly pisses me off (the teachers involved are his friends from his old school, and he’s not the sort of guy to keep his mouth shut in the face of stupidity– but it would still piss me off even if I had no emotional connection to anyone involved). I remember when L.A. was burning in the wake of the Rodney King trial. Many of us wanted to walk out in support for all of the people who had ever been wrongfully beaten down by the system, whose pleas for a revision in the way that justice is carried out were met with a deafening silence. I remember how mad I was. I suspect that kids today, many of them with fathers and mothers who are out on extended tours, have already come home in a casket, or (more common, certainly) have come home missing crucial parts of their psyche, their body, or c) all of the above, have very strong feelings about Iraq. At least I hope they do. I know I would if I were that age today.
One day, folks. We’re not talking about a massive campaign to shut down the school, we’re talking about one day’s worth of our tax dollars going to help our kids understand that their voices count… that their enthusiasm and desire to make a difference are contagious and important.
If you feel the same way about this, I’d encourage you to drop a line to the school administrators and defend these kids’ right to learn something important about civil disobedience. “We don’t want to hear you, and we don’t want you to teach kids that they should be heard” simply isn’t the message that I feel we should be paying taxes to promote.
The problem with encouraging civil disobedience is that when you start picking and choosing the laws you want to obey, you give license to others to pick and choose those laws they wish to obey. How ironic that you find fault with a policeman using excessive force (breaking the law) and no fault with civil disobedience (breaking the law). Two wrongs do not make a right.
Civil disobedience is sometimes a useful tool... but there's a good chance that unless you're breaking unfair rules or unconstitutional laws... you will end up being punished for it. That's part of the deal.
These kids could have protested the war after school instead... they broke the rules purely to get more attention, not because the rules are unfair or wrong. The teachers that helped are just as responsible and can also face the consequences.
That and the action is being touted by communist groups... and commies should never be happy. Ever. :-)
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Glock21 Op/Ed
JamesJohn: (edit to the right name, sorry about that.. it was late, I was tired)It's not necessarily ironic. Rosa Parks was breaking the unwritten Code of the South when she chose to make her stand (if you'll pardon the expression). There are times when breaking the law in the name of a cause you believe in is justified, and I feel that this is one of them.
Kem
Glock:
I agree with you on that one. The night (or nights) in jail, loss of job, etc... is oftentimes the end result, which is why I chose that title and not something more idealistic and ultimately naive.
They broke the rules for the same reason that I wanted to break the rules with the Rodney King trial (we didn't... too skerid about the Consequences, and it didn't matter enough to a bunch of upper middle class white kids who had GPA's to maintain and didn't want anything nasty on our Permanent Records). I suspect that it mattered enough to these 150 students. If the teacher had been the one who introduced the idea to the students, I would feel less inclined to support him. As the situation stands, though, it was the students who came up with the idea. The teacher simply let them know that they had the right to exercise Civil Disobedience. I suspect that he let them know what the consequences would be, and that he fully understood those consequences himself before acting. I'm fairly certain (knowing the sorts of pinko hippies that my friend is likely to count among his friends) that he is willing to pay that cost.
The question is whether or not the penalty is warranted, given the nature of the crime. A massive statewide walkout (and I think I would call 1,000 students and various teachers supporting those students massive, given the risks involved) is a lesson in Democracy that strikes me as valuable. Our response to these lawbreakers says something important about our priorities as a society in precisely the same way that our judicial system's response to the Rodney King beating said something important about our priorities then.
For the record, I'd feel the same way if the walk-out had been Pro-War.
Kem
Funny, I seem to recall the inventors of civil disobedience as being very open about having the stones to accept the consequences of civil disobedience and not whining thinking that civil disobedience should somehow be an affirmative defense to being a public blowhard on the state's dime.
Anonymous:
I'm not denying that these things are true, and I can assure you that the title of the post was deliberate. I'm not a complete and total history nut, but I do have a basic familiarity with the foundations of our Democracy.
My point here is that the students who took this action did so as an expression of what they felt was their only way to be heard in a way that would gain attention from people who were old enough to make their voices count at the voting booth. While it's technically true that they could have organized after school protests, it simply wouldn't have had the same impact.
Can we throw the book at everyone involved? Of course. Should we? I don't think so. I think these students are more likely to become active participants in the democratic process. Some of them may even grow up to become Republicans. Or Commies. Stranger things have happened. The point is that they are getting involved and standing up for what they feel is right. I think a slap on the wrist is in order, here. I don't think people should lose their jobs for telling students that if they care about something enough to disobey the rules (kids certainly ditch school for lousy reasons around the country every day, and not all of them are punished for it), then they have a choice to make.
I'm aware that this sets a precedent. I get it. I still think it's a risk worth taking, because I think the motivations behind this action were educational in and of themselves. So, I suspect, did the teachers who supported them.
Kem
Given the known consequences it is almost necessary for the punishnent to go forward in this case then. If they wanted the attention due to the potential punishment, then it's necessary for the punishment to still occur. They should accept it with a smile. The teachers as well. It may be for the wrong reasons... it may be for the right reasons. But that's the price of civil disobedience. I'd commit civil disobedience under certain circumstances.... but I'd sit in my jail cell and smile. Whether it is for civil rights or over-bearing gov't... I'd happily be a martyr for the cause of liberty.
I hope the teachers take their reprimands with a grin. I hope the students take their suspensions knowing they fought for what they believed.
I don't however think the administrators are wrong in this case, nor do I think they should let the kids or teachers off the hook for their disobedience. It would not only hurt the system, but also those fighting for some greater good.
Can't be a martyr if there is no sacrifice. Part of the civil rights movement's success came from the over reaction of others.... turning those who stood with non-violent resistance against the racist hate-filled minions into martyrs. Civil disobedience without consequence hurts the cause more than it helps.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Civil Disobedience by Henry David Thoreau
I really wish people would read Civil Disobedience before they wrap themselves in its mantle. Teachers should certainly read it before they encourage "civil disobedience" from their students.
Civil Disobedience as practiced by Thoreau and Parks and the civil rights movement, was the refusal to obey an unjust law. Parks did not feel it was just to be forced to sit in the back of the bus, so she sat in the front. She then bore the consequences of such action, to a grand result.
Today's civil disobedience is merely rabble rousing to gain attention. It adds law breaking to the right of assembly trying to capture the spirit of people like Parks and King. Then it complains when the law is enforced.
K though 12 students don't have free speech rights if you check with he US Supreme Court except when they are speaking in private conversion. Teachers are not supposed to control thier speech unless it conflicts with classroom instruction. I would guess many of the students walked because they just wanted to cut class. I think part of taking a stand is taking the pain along with it.
Fair enough, Run.
Mark, I've read the essay. When you're a minor, the figures of authority that dominate your life have a great deal more to do with school officials and parents than they do the judicial system and the police. At least, that's the way it should be. I recognize that it isn't always.
The question isn't whether or not the law is enforced here. Clearly, there has to be a penalty, or you have students planning to protest every bill that comes down the state legislature in the name of a free day off (there are worse causes...). I can assure you that when we were discussing a walk-out on the Rodney King issue, it wasn't because we just wanted to cut class. Many of us were on Student Government and in the NHS. Cutting class really wasn't in our day-to-day vocabulary, but it was something that we felt very passionately about, and we felt that it would be a strong statement of our disgust with the system if we did something radical. We felt it was a mockery of justice that Life in these United States went on just exactly as it had the day before in the face of criminal behavior that was both inherant in the system and upheld in the courts of law, but we felt powerless to DO ANYTHING about it. Maybe if we grabbed the community's attention and made them understand how important it was, we could inspire them to do something? We did write our Congressmen and all that, but it's a pretty ineffective means of dealing with the issue due to that whole separation of powers thing, and we all knew it.
I am dead positive that many if not all of the 150 students marching for peace were there with the same outrage in their chests, the same desire to be heard. Whether or not you agree with the effectiveness of peace marches, I can tell you that being among people who are just as outraged as you are when the world seems complacent is a bracing experience. It has very little to do with your effect on people whose minds are already made up on the other side of the debate, and everything to do with everyone else. What did the Million Man March accomplish? Well, nothing really. Unless, of course, you count the people who viewed it as a transformative inspiration in their lives that motivated them to embrace community values and make positive changes in their lives. Same goes for just about any march, really. It's not about rabble rousing, it's about finding a sense of community and leaning on it for support.
Kem
Glock:
All good points, and I'd be right on board with you in most cases. In this one, though, I'm just a little too aware of how ironic it is that the social studies teacher who helps his students get passionate about the debate and take an interest in the world around them is the one that we consider unfit to teach our kids. Wouldn't it make just a little more sense to lay down rules for teacher involvement in student-led initiatives like this? Can't we just acknowledge the fact that teenagers operate under a different sort of logic than adults do, and tailor the rules to best channel that logic into a productive outlet?
I can't help but think that if teachers knew a way to help these kids without risking the wrath of the administration, they would. I don't know, organized debates, with the teacher laying down the opposing views and encouraging students to formulate responses to those points? Something...
As it stands, we have kids who want to make a difference, feel frustrated and helpless in the face of the Powers that Be (and you know I've got some native empathy there), and make the decision to stand for something.
They're told, "get back to class, you juvenile delinquent scum... Oh, and that favorite teacher who inspired you to care about the world? Yeah, he's toast, too."
It's not an effective means of education, and that's my real beef here. We need to find a way to address this tendancy to march when the spirit says march, and to do it without losing some of the most creative minds in the system (both the teachers and the students).
Kem
Having read the link it appears that the school district has deeper problems than the war, but to compare what the students did to either the Rodney King travesty or the courage of Rosa Parks is completely over the top and only reinforces a misunderstanding of those situations and the historical lesson. Although considering the organizing group it is common for Communists to distort history in a way that will benefit them. (And yes they are Communists they have simply stayed away from a name that has a stigma, but the propaganda is the same.) I have to agree with Shelden and Glock that this was not an appropriate time or place for such a display. Putting it simply what the students did was nothing new and did nothing to add to the general discourse on the war. Do people in DC understand there is opposition to the war? Yup. Has Bush seen the regular demonstrations of antiwar groups of various stripes on the mall? Yup. Are people in DC aware that antiwar protests occur throughtout the country? Yup.
So, I ask, what have these students done to add something new to the discourse other than skipping school? Nothing. Zero. Is it because they are students? Nope. Thousands of students have protested so that is nothing new. Is it because it is Washington State? There have been regular protests in the state with some of the more 'colorful' being in Seattle so, again, nothing new. While I fully support students becoming involved in the political process from gaining a better understanding of how things work to active participation I cannot support the blatant disregard for school policy or the law as was apparently encouraged by the involved teachers. Those teachers should be terminated.
I also find it distrubing that one of the teachers invited her husband who was a Iraq vet to speak to her class and talked about a conspiracy of the government and media leads me to assume what other conspiracies are being 'taught' by the wife or other teachers that walked with the students. Filling immature and easily swayed minds with conpiracies is not teaching it is pushing a political agenda. These teachers have abused their positions of authority, and should be held responsible for encouraging this activity.
What if the reason for the walk out was not about the war, but becasue the students were protesting a minimum drinking age of 21? Should school administrators not punish the participants because they were actively standing up for a belief about which they are passionate?
I agree with Glock21 and Mark on this one. I fully support the students right to protest the war,(or support the war), but it should occur on their own time and not distupt the school day for those who choose not to participate OR be prepared to accept the consequenses for walking out of class.
How ironic that you find fault with murdering a whole bunch of people (breaking the law) and no fault with speeding (breaking the law).
This is fun:
How ironic that you find fault with me peeing on your grandmother in a non-mutual situation(breaking the law) and no fault marrying people of a different race in Virginia in 1960 (breaking the law).
Make your own! Join the fun!
Ghost:
Well of course they're commies. Like I said, my buddy in Seattle is a total pinko. Still good people... and he kicks my butt at chess, except for when I kick his butt (which is rare-- he's pretty sharp).
While I understand that you may feel the comparisons aren't valid, please understand that these kids may have brothers, sisters, mothers and/or fathers overseas. Some of them may have lost loved ones. They may feel it's a cause worth fighting for and worth taking an administrative slap on the wrist, even if they don't have a direct "reason" to march. Teenagers are like that, or so I remember from the hazy days of my own rebellious youth. (Joke, sort of.)
Are they overestimating the effects that their march will have? Sure. Then again, when I see the good people of C-U standing in support of the troops on Prospect, it doesn't really do anything to change my views on the subject. I'm pretty sure the people gathered there know this. I don't think it's about swaying the tide of public opinion, I think it's about raising your voice just to be heard.
But a bunch of bloggers wouldn't know anything about that... :)
Kem
Dissent is the greatest form of patriotism! Civil disobedience, the legends live on, through their schools! Oh to be a teacher or a student in this era of discontent. Peace brother, lets protest the war, after all its no good man. War, what is it good for? A protest of course, get the markers.
Truthfully, I dissent the dissent. High school minds do not have enough information on the facts, the realities of the world to protest a war. Much to complex an issue.
Ghost:
And to address the issue with the conspiracy theories being taught in the school, I can only say that exposing kids to one-sided rhetoric can be done in a way that encourages critical thought. I'd be extremely surprised if the assignment that followed wasn't one that encouraged kids to form their own opinions by giving them readings from the opposite side of the spectrum. It's possible that this happened, but I know this is preceisely the sort of thing that Jeff would do in his classroom if he wasn't a math teacher. Certainly, he encourages it on the discussion board that he founded and that I helped to moderate back when I had my paid membership in the chess club.
It's the sort of thing he would encourage his students to do if they were talking with him after class. I sincerely doubt he would count people who did anything less among his friends.
Kem
xian:
I'd really like to hear your views on a way to make this process work. If some students came to you with an issue that they were passionate about, and they wanted to organize a student protest, how would you handle it?
Kem
Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone soon to be 18 years old should have their opinion considered valid when it comes to war.
As an interesting historical antecdote, the May 1970 anti-war protests at U of I sparked protests at the local high school and middle school levels. The News-Gazette from this time tells the story of "dozens" of students at UHS and UMS who walked out of school and over to Carle Park to protest the war. It doesn't mention what the administration did to the students, but I heard from a reliable source that they looked the other way.
On another note, this case sounds eerily similar to Morse v. Frederick, the infamous "Bong Hits for Jesus" case. SCOTUS has ruled that a school can penalize students for any behavior that "endorses illegal activity". Any sober look at the stance of the Court on student rights over the last forty years reveals that students in American school have almost no rights at all.
"Any sober look at the stance of the Court on student rights over the last forty years reveals that students in American school have almost no rights at all."
Yeah, but on the other hand they can get free rubbers from school now.
JK,
"Well of course they're commies. Like I said, my buddy in Seattle is a total pinko. Still good people......."
I'm not saying they are bad people, but I believe them to be terribly misguided. Having experienced communism firsthand I find it along with fascism to be the most dehumanizing and corrupting political and economic ideas to ever come forth from the human mind. Individuals such as your friend need to spend considerable time in such a system to adequately understand the implementation of such a system and the consequences of it.
"I don't think it's about swaying the tide of public opinion, I think it's about raising your voice just to be heard."
As I said before, if its about wanting your voice to be heard there is an appropriate time and place for such an activity concerning children that should be in school learning. If the teachers wanted to guide them with their political agenda them they can do so outside of school time. Because of the power teachers have and the responsibility that comes with that position they should use them wisely. These teachers abused that power and as a consequence should be terminated.
"And to address the issue with the conspiracy theories being taught in the school, I can only say that exposing kids to one-sided rhetoric can be done in a way that encourages critical thought. I'd be extremely surprised if the assignment that followed wasn't one that encouraged kids to form their own opinions by giving them readings from the opposite side of the spectrum."
Eh? It would encourage critical thought if the teacher had brought in someone to balance her husbands opinion. Since that wasn't the case it was simply pushing a specific agenda and as such should not be tolerated. The classroom is not a political forum to denounce any administration alleging unfounded conspiracies, but a place where immature minds can be exposed to varying points of view. That would encourage critical thought.
Ghost:
And I strongly suspect that the teachers involved here did so, or at the very least gave the students some resources to look at alternate opinions. Again, though, that's based on my knowledge of my misguided friend's approach to politics. I may be completely wrong about that, and if I am, I agree with you. It's not responsible to provide a one-sided and heavily biased view on current events without presenting the other side in the classroom.
Then again, I'm also reminded of the first day of lecture in Frietzsche's History of Western Civ, which started with him scrawling out an angry phrase on the chalkboard:
ALL HISTORIANS ARE LIARS!
It was a good class.
Point being: bias is inevitable. Presenting it in a way that encourages students to think is important. Finding a way to channel the perfectly natural impulses that teens have to see things in black and white, and helping them to see both sides of the story while still encouraging them to stand for what they believe in is the trick that every educator has to deal with when working with this age group.
I'd like to see a process formalized that lets both students and teachers do this without risking their ability to come to class or earn a living.
On November 30th, 2007 at 12:49 PM, Narc said:
Yeah, I can't imagine why anyone soon to be 18 years old should have their opinion considered valid when it comes to war.
That's pretty much the 2 edged sword right there in a nutshell. On the one hand we all probably remember how naive we were as teenagers when it came to politics, world history, etc... but we were well aware of the fact that recruiters were looking at us for military service committments as early as 16 and 17 years old... we knew about that selective service thing that'd basically put our butts in line for any future draft... we had friends considering enlistment or actually enlisting while seeing various conflicts around the globe erupt and fizzle.
I've met plenty of adults who were probably less than qualified to espouse some political cause, but they had every right to protest, or complain, or whatever to the high heavens about it... even if there was no direct or indirect consequence on them. These kids may face an uphill battle to be taken seriously, especially if their motivations or statements affirm some sort of lack of understanding on the issues. But as far as having a right to speak out... they absolutely have that right. As far as violating rules to ensure their protest gets more attention... it worked. That was the sacrifice. They should accept their punishment gladly. It worked.
If the administration turned the other cheek, I think that would be a worse lesson for the kids. Personal responsibility for their actions is part of the equation here. If the rules they broke were unjust or unfair or unconstitutional... I'd be singing a different tune. They (as well as other kids paying attention) need to realize that breaking the rules simply to get more attention to a cause can work... but you'll face the punishment for it. You have to decide if it is worth it (as opposed to school walk outs to protest Paris Hilton's jail treatment, for example).
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Well, to answer your questions, my students do stuff like this all the time. I happily support them whether I agree with their politics or not. I simply advise them on what is appropriate communication and what is strategic action.
We have done civil disobedience and if are you interested, you could look in the Sunday before last's chicago tribune.
Without skills of social action that people seem to disdain so much around here, there's no point in training them in other skills. They certainly aren't likely to learn them fresh AFTER 18.
I assure you that most of my students, seen as stupid by most of society, have more civic awareness than some, perhaps most, of the posters around here. Thank goodness for that, because few of their elders are providing them any support. If they have no parental support and most of the society says "those aren't my kids!", then logic says they will have to learn to self-advocate.
It seems to me that the administration in this case was the group that had a political agenda....
It seems to me that the administration in this case was the group that had a political agenda....
Agreed.
OK, the original source is hardly unbiased. I'm curious as to what the suspended teacher did in "support" of the students. And while I realize that taking the punishment is part of civil disobedience, it's also important that the school not overreact here. This wasn't students slacking off, or mass truancy, it was an attempt to take part in the process. Maybe it was ill-advised, but hey they are students. Maybe it would even be possible to turn this into a teaching opportunity. Talk about other protests from the civil rights era and the Vietnam era.
"without skills of social action that people seen to disdain so much around here, there's no point it training them in other skills."
Talk about agendas, you just said what your number one agenda was, and to think there are those who defend or should I say deny that the schools have a left leaning agenda. Incredible but not surprising, we all know bettter.
"few of their elders are providing them support".
Therefore you must be the surogate. Do you hand out condoms as well, or just point them to the planned parenthood office, maybe.
Wow, made the tribune, you must be one proud teacher. Are you a member of the Socialist party, really, are you? What activist groups do you belong to? Be honest! I dare you to answer and show your true leanings, be proud, are you a member of any gender groups etc....
Much respect to Xian for teaching students the fundamentals of democracy.
Yes, teaching kids the fundamentals of democracy, encouraging them to think critically, and supporting them in whatever actions they choose to take makes me a communist.
Allowing poor students to interact on either the left or the right of the political spectrum EQUALS schools being left-leaning? What do I have to do to be neutral, let them get shot in the streets or would I have to actually shoot them myself?
Therefore you must be the surogate. Do you hand out condoms as well, or just point them to the planned parenthood office, maybe.
Who would you suggest be the surrogate? Random hatemongers on the internet? Or is your schedule too busy?
I encourage my students to abstain from sexual intercourse. I do not provide birth control, but the idea that someone who cares about the students and believes in democracy must therefore also fit your stereotype of a communist says a lot about what you think right-wing ideology is.
Is ractivist right? To be neutral or right-leaning, do you actually have to hate inner-city kids?
Narc,
OK, the original source is hardly unbiased. I'm curious as to what the suspended teacher did in "support" of the students.
That's a really good question. I'll shoot Jeff an email and see if I can get his totally unbiased opinion on it. (Joking, really. He may be a pinko, but he's also very good at looking at situations objectively and changing his mind. I trust him to tell it like it is.)
And while I realize that taking the punishment is part of civil disobedience, it's also important that the school not overreact here.
My sentiments exactly. Is it right and proper for the school board to issue a slap on the wrist to the kids involved? Sure. They ditched school. Is it right and proper for teachers who supported these students to lose their jobs over it? I don't think so. As long as they were clear about the end results of their actions and weren't making any sort of promises to the kids about getting them out of trouble or anything like that, I think it's perfectly within the job description to acknowledge the right that young people have to express their opinion about the state of the union and their place in it.
Maybe it would even be possible to turn this into a teaching opportunity. Talk about other protests from the civil rights era and the Vietnam era.
That's my thought. And, again, I'd be astonished if these discussions weren't already going on before and even during the march. People who are passionate about war not being the appropriate response to terrorism (like me, pinko commie sympathizer that I am) do view the violence in the Middle East as the major issue for our global community to solve in this century. We do see it as something that will not go away if we ignore it, and will only be made worse if we try to use force to put it out. We have a right to that opinion, and we even have a right to talk to curious teenagers about our opinions. As long as we aren't telling those curious teenagers that our answers are the only answers that smart people could possibly come up with, I don't see the problem. Certainly, I don't think anyone should lose their job over it.
Kem
"Are you a member of the Socialist party, really, are you? What activist groups do you belong to? Be honest! I dare you to answer and show your true leanings, be proud, are you a member of any gender groups etc...."
Is this really necessary? What does any of this have to do with any of xian's arguments?
Will you be investigating every poster?
i'll be the first to admit i'm a member of a gender group, males, and a racial group, the human race. hope that satisfies the needs of a ractivist
I also enjoy clubbing seals and punching babies.
Me too, xian, me too. That's why I get so outraged by things like this. It just offends my delicate sensibilites.
Kem
xian... don't forget eating horses... you unamerican commie! ;-)
I disagree with you here, but it's amazing that you are constantly accused of being a threat to America when you are probably one of the shining examples of what America is all about. I just don't get it. Or maybe I get it too much and just don't get the detractors. Such is life I guess.
To put this particular issue in perspective though, if it wasn't for the consequences of civil disobedience we wouldn't have a letter from Birmingham jail... probably one of the greatest stream of consciousness examples of the written word. Without sacrifice many actions get lost in the sea of events. It's when people can empathize or sympathize that change becomes realistic. If these kids/teachers weren't facing punishment we'd probably never even know about it. It's not that they shouldn't fight the consequences, but they should certainly accept them with a grin if that's the way it turns out. If the cause is just, so is the price.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
And, for anyone interested, the email I just checked from Jeff had this to say (my questions to him are in italics):
On what grounds are they being suspended? Only one was suspended - with pay. He walked out when he had a class...but got another teacher to watch his class. He violated his contract and should get a reprimand. The other 5 are being investigated to see if they 'violated their contracts.' What is suspicious is the particular teachers who were targeted...other that the guy who walked out, none of them participated in the march. One drove several students to the march (with parental permission - and during her planning period. Teachers are allowed to leave the building during planning time.) These are all teachers with a less than great relationship with administration...and they are perceived as trouble makers.
Did they offer to protect the students in any way from the absolutely predictable results of their actions? No. In fact, I know that several of them told students that there would likely be disciplinary action taken against them if they walked out, and that that was a decision they had to make based on the strength of their conviction.
Did they present the Iraq war from only one side of the political spectrum and in any way imply that any other view of the war was something that only stupid people believed? Not that I know of. It is hard to completely hide one's feelings, but these are fair minded folks who know better than to try to indoctrinate students.
Also, do you mind if I simply copy-paste your response? Fine.
Thanks. No. Thank you!
So, I'll let you all make the call about whether or not these teachers need to be under investigation for inappropriate actions. Personally? I think the administration is out of line.
Kem
If the cause is just, so is the price.
In this case, I don't think that opening investigations on the teachers is an appropriate response, nor is it likely to generate a Letter from Birmingham Jail. More likely, it's just a bunch of excrement being left at the doors of teachers who work their butts off trying to get their students to care enough about the world to actually run it someday.
It's a thankless task, and being targeted by the administration because you're a "trouble maker" really doesn't do any good. I think some letter writing from people who care enough about the quality of the education our kids receive (in Seattle, and elsewhere) is in order. Put it on your holiday list of charitable contributions. Stamps are cheap, and words written with passion behind them are valuable.
Kem
Thank you for following up on this. Good old investigation helps save us from the "this is what probably happened" speculation that just lets us all support our world view.
The teacher who drove a kid with parental permission violated a serious regulation if Seattle's contract is similar to Chicago's. But that's where a good administrator would give them a verbal reprimand and be done with it.
I would think that anyone who cares about the students would have one question in terms of evaluating the teachers: Is this person a selfless, dedicated teacher who breaks themselves to do what is best for the kids? If so, we must support them and not make their job more difficult.
An administrator who places personal vendettas over what is best for the students hurts a lot more students than even a poor teacher. After all, they are what enables ineffectual teachers.
As an added note, I agree entirely that those who practice civil disobedience should be prepared to serve the consequences.
However, that is completely and entirely separate from the issue of whether those consequences are just.
Nazi resisters knew full well that they were likely to be killed almost immediately. However, the law does not justify their extermination.
That's an extreme case (Godwin, blah blah blah), but let's be real--there's not a country in the world that has only just laws or only just enforcement. The "you were breaking the law and deserve whatever you get" argument is tired and shallow and basically unsupportable in the face of inequal enforcement.
Heh. At least you call yourself on your invocation of Godwin's Law. Not many do, and I respect that.
Kem
Well, Godwin's law is not "don't ever speak of the Nazis ever again so we learn nothing from those atrocities and are doomed to repeat it" and it's not as if the Nazis occupy some unique place in human history...
Actually, I'd say they do occupy a unique place in human history, for quite a few reasons, but that's neither here nor there. Like discussions of Communism, it has no real place in my original plea for support for these guys.
I would actually like to see a process where kids are able to bring their proposals up before the school board, and sponsoring teachers who help the students to do their due diligence and make sure that they understand the other side of the argument aren't threatened for going the extra mile. As long as they can demonstrate that their actions aren't frivolous, and teachers know exactly what they are and are not allowed to say and do, I think that civil disobedience is an excellent learning opportunity. We need some firm guidelines in place that help administrations understand when a slap on the wrist is appropriate, instead of the reflexive kick in the shins, though. Otherwise, it's just a question of who kisses administrative buttocks and who does not. Frankly, I always respected, admired, and learned from the teachers who didn't care much about what anyone thought about them and simply went with their gut instincts instead.
I know Jeff pretty well, and he's one of those teachers that kids Remember. If I thought for one second that the people who these kids look up to as mentors were Bad Teachers, I wouldn't be defending them. I don't. I think they're Great Teachers. Isn't it hard enough to attract people to the profession without the added risk of losing your job when you talk with kids about the world around them?
...sigh.
Kem
With Nazi germany's oppressive regime it was necessary to break the rules and laws to dissent and work against the regime. Like I said in the earlier post, "If the rules they broke were unjust or unfair or unconstitutional... I'd be singing a different tune."
I could even see the Administration giving them a break if they believed that the students would have been prevented from demonstrating after school by other rules or societal issues even though the school rules they broke aren't in and of themselves unjust or unfair. I agree that in this particular situation a slap on the wrist to all involved, students and teachers, would probably be far more appropriate than any harsh punishment, expulsion, firing, etc. I think that the intentions should also play a role in what punishments, if any, are appropriate.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Thank you. Now put a stamp on it and send it where it counts. :) The administration may have started this investigation just for the fun of it, with no real intent to screw up any of these teachers' lives, but I somehow doubt it.
They've all got classrooms full of students who need them giving 110%, as I'm sure they have to every other class they've taught. The odds of finding replacements really aren't that great.
Kem
I will agree with you the law that required Rosa Parks to sit in the back of the bus was fundamentally unfair. There is a three way stop where Busey Woods meets Bradley Avenue. The section between Lincoln and that stop sign was undergoing repairs and has a sign that the road is closed. Is it fair that you have to stop at that stop sign? Seems like that is unfair. Curfew laws are unfair to some who are about to reach legal age as are laws that prohibit you from driving during the hour before your supension ends.
I was not commenting about the Rosa Parks situation, but was simply commenting on the disconnect between civil disobedience by students and excessive force by police. The situations are different because there is no rational basis why "special legislation" should apply to blacks and not to whites. That makes it fundamentally unfair. All drivers have to stop at the stop sign, although one would think there is little need to do so. There is a "rational basis" for requiring underage persons to have to be accompanied by an adult after a certain hour. Thus, there is a distinction. This having been said, society still requires that these problems be addressed in a court of law. This is because these situations can lead to a "breach" of the peace. This is the reason why protests sometimes need to get parade permits so that police can be there to insure your fundamental rights to carry signs during a peaceful protest.
Of course the situations are different. But think back to when you were a teenager. Was there nothing that you were totally and completely convinced of as far as good and evil was concerned? Nothing that you felt mattered in a way that was desperately important, but felt powerless to do anything about?
People feel that way about terrorism and our response to it, and with good cause. Speaking for myself, I don't really need the sense of community that one finds in candlelight vigils and protest marches... I blog and I rant and I get it out of my system that way. Some of those kids may do the same thing, too, but still felt that they wanted to make a stronger statement.
At issue here is not whether or not they did something wrong, it's whether or not the response to that action is fair and reasonable. I didn't see anything in there about what the administration is doing to the students that strikes me as unjust, but I absolutely do have a problem with a witch hunt against teachers who encourage students to form strong opinions by supporting *student initiated* protests. The end of the semester is stressful enough for teachers without them having to worry about whether or not they're going to lose their jobs because they didn't give students the cold shoulder when they came to them asking for help.
Kem
Incidentally, there's plenty of "fundamentally wrong" current treatment of students. How about the NCLB provision that requires that students' personal information is turned over to military recruiters, and then is used to disproportionately target working students and students of color?
But hey, even if you don't think that's a good one, isn't that the point? It's not really up to me or you to determine what laws are unjust from the students' perspective.
After all, there were plenty of people sitting where we are now owning slaves or supporting the Nazis because those laws appeared just.