Did George Will just advocate for Obama, over a Republican? I'm kinda confused...this throws my entire world out of balance...up is down, down is up, right is left, left is right...
Barack Obama, who might be mercifully closing the Clinton parenthesis in presidential history, is refreshingly cerebral amid this recrudescence of the paranoid style in American politics. He is the un-Edwards and un-Huckabee -- an adult aiming to reform the real world rather than an adolescent fantasizing mock-heroic "fights" against fictitious villains in a left-wing cartoon version of this country.
In the earlier paragraphs, Will takes Huckabee and Edwards to task for over-the-top, unfounded claims of a shrinking middle class. Money quote:
He and John Edwards, flaunting their histrionic humility in order to promote their curdled populism, hawked strikingly similar messages in Iowa, encouraging self-pity and economic hypochondria. Edwards and Huckabee lament a shrinking middle class. Well.
Economist Stephen Rose, defining the middle class as households with annual incomes between $30,000 and $100,000, says a smaller percentage of Americans are in that category than in 1979 -- because the percentage of Americans earning more than $100,000 has doubled, from 12 to 24, while the percentage earning less than $30,000 is unchanged. "So," Rose says, "the entire 'decline' of the middle class came from people moving up the income ladder." Even as housing values declined in 2007, the net worth of households increased.
As a voter, I've never cared for or liked Edwards; his most recent campaign seemed had too much of a "look at me, look at me", shrill tone to it, in my opinion. I hadn't formed an opinion on Huckabee, until the recent foreign affairs naivety came up; my opinion of him lowered after that, but not irredeemably so.
interesting times...
HG
I have to admit I am already tired of the religious card being played by some GOP canidates in an effort to show their values. Yes and I am equally tired of the security card being over played by some other GOP canidates. I have yet to hear a decent energy, tax reformation, health cost containment or medicare fix plan put forth by these guys. Although I disagree with all the Democrat canidates plans---at least they have some.
Let's go GOP-----how about a little substance. You know something to think about, review, discuss---NO MORE FAITH & HOPE PLEASE!!!!
I read Wills column while he included Huckabee in his column he never stated any facts or said that Huckabee made the statements Edwards has made. I think Huckabee is concerned about issues that concern people still in the middle class which there still is one no matter what Will or Rose says, just like there are many voters who are people of faith. You might support the Fair tax or he's against illegal immigration.
On January 6th, 2008 at 09:33 PM, Run4cvrlib said: "I read Wills column while he included Huckabee in his column he never stated any facts or said that Huckabee made the statements Edwards has made."
Um, yes, he did: "Huckabee told heavily subsidized Iowa -- Washington's ethanol enthusiasm has farm values and incomes soaring -- that Americans striving to rise are "pushed down every time they try by their own government."" And again, here: "Huckabee, a compound of Uriah Heep, Elmer Gantry and Richard Nixon, preens about his humble background: "In my family, 'summer' was never a verb."" Will then goes on to offer, as comparisons, comments made by Edwards.
Rich Lowry, at National Review online, has the same quote, referring to a speech that "I saw on the trail over the weekend [weekend of Dec. 29-30, 2007]". Lowry also includes other, similar quotes from Huckabee. It's not a new theme for Huckabee, nor is it a new theme for writers to point out.
Run4cvrlib said: "I think Huckabee is concerned about issues that concern people still in the middle class which there still is one no matter what Will or Rose says..."
Will, in quoting Rose, makes the point that even though the "middle class", as defined in the article, has shrunk, it's "because the percentage of Americans earning more than $100,000 has doubled, from 12 to 24, while the percentage earning less than $30,000 is unchanged." The section that represents the middle class went down because more people moved up the income ladder. I thought that was a goal, right? Will's point, I belive, is that the histrionics of Edwards and Huckabee are disingenious because the basis for them isn't what they're being made out to be.
HG
So you’re saying that by Huckabee saying that the middle class needs help like the Farmers in Iowa have when they received help from the federal subsidizes for ethanol that somehow he is attacking big business, do I have that right? I don't see that as the same. I have never heard of Rose I guess I could find any economist to say anything. Your right there are probably more people in making $100000 both because of inflation and also because there are more people. I think people are also moving up the income ladder but it's hardly histrionics to point out that people are paying more for food, energy, housing and taxes. I know Edwards has a much greater socialist bent but it's just plain spin to include Huckabee in the same article and paint him with the same brush, I guess that’s the way politics are now a days. Huckabee won by huge numbers in Iowa while I am not helping him I dislike the campaign by half truth he probably won’t win in New Hampshire but he will do better then most people think.
There's no way that he's not talking about "real dollars" right? He can't be comparing 1979 dollars to current dollars?
I don't know I have never heard of this guy and there isn't enough information. I have seen other information that says other wise. I think if you’re going to say there is no middle class or that people in the last 20 years (they give no time table) have not had their income stagnant or that they feel the rich are getting richer many people may feel your mis-informed.
History Guy wrote: "Did George Will jus advocate for Obama over a Repuiblican?"
Well Will did praise Obama and criticized Republican candidates. I'm not sure if this is quite equivalent to endorsement.
George Will sometimes writes the unexpected. He once wrote a column adovcating the criminality of tobacco companies. Another column, once one sorted out the long sentences and two dollar words, clearly stated that Palestinians are inferior to Israelis.
In the 1980's Will, a great baseball fan, wrote a column in either Time or Newsweek about his visit to a Cleveland Indians baseball game, and bleacher fans' uninhibited use and screaming of the "f" word throughout the game. The column was peppered with the "f" word and its variants used in as various parts of speech.
Michael Fuerst
(Click here for Urbana postage stamps, T-shirts and bumper stickers.)
On January 6th, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Run4cvrlib said: "Your right there are probably more people in making $100000 both because of inflation and also because there are more people."
Please pay attention to Will's quote of Rose, stating the "percentage of Americans earning more than $100,000 has doubled, from 12 to 24, while the percentage earning less than $30,000 is unchanged." Note, the use of the word "percentage". Rose took the absolute increase in the number of people into account...which is the entire point of Will quoting him: that, while the "middle class" has shrunk, it's because more people are moving up the income ladder.
Again, I thought that's a good thing??
Run4cvrlib said: "So you’re saying that by Huckabee saying that the middle class needs help like the Farmers in Iowa have when they received help from the federal subsidizes for ethanol that somehow he is attacking big business, do I have that right?"
No, you're wrong. Read the quote again: "Huckabee told heavily subsidized Iowa -- Washington's ethanol enthusiasm has farm values and incomes soaring -- that Americans striving to rise are "pushed down every time they try by their own government." Not one word to "big business" or "corporate greed" or anything else; Huckabee is saying that the middle-class is being "pushed down" by the Federal government.
Run4cvrlib said: "I know Edwards has a much greater socialist bent but it's just plain spin to include Huckabee in the same article and paint him with the same brush, I guess that’s the way politics are now a days."
So it's spin to level the same charge, "promot[ing] their curdled populism", against Huckabee, even when his talking points read like a different speech by Edwards? If I posted two different populist-style speechs, one by Huckabee and one by Edwards, would you even be able to tell the difference? I doubt it. Again, that's the point of Will's article; that the "curdled populism" of Edwards and (yes, even) Huckabee are not grounded in demonstratable facts.
HG
On January 7th, 2008 at 06:03 AM, xian said: "There's no way that he's not talking about "real dollars" right? He can't be comparing 1979 dollars to current dollars?"
On January 7th, 2008 at 08:22 AM, Run4cvrlib said: "I don't know I have never heard of this guy and there isn't enough information."
Well, searching for Rose through Google, for less than 20 minutes, turned up a number of sites (including some that referenced another academic with the same name). I've taken a brief moment to link to a few hits, including two that have links to .pdf files of his work.
RealClearPolitics, August 5th, 2006 (which references his work done for the...)
Progressive Policy Institute, April 25, 2006 (.pdf ffile at the end)
The Washington Post, December 23, 2007 (by Rose) and Wednesday, May 30, 2007 (by WaPo staff)
and a small post on the WallStreetJournal.com blog section, by I believe staff writers; it links to another .pdf file of his work.
To answer Xian's question: from what I've been able to determine, Rose quotes monetary figures in 2005 dollars; that was the only reference I found in either of his works.
HG