MTD Rejects Savoy Reimbursements

Anonymous 02:16 PM wrote: A black eye is a small price to pay to keep a thief from grabbing your wallet.

The "taxation is theft" argument loses me from the get-go.

Ignoring the MTD issue, is it my imagination or is Savoy having a hard time dealing with its explosive growth from a pimple-sized small town to a sizeable community? Seems like they are falling behind.

redstate: Thanks for the information. Will they be forming their own police department and going from a volunteer fire department to a full-time FD? I'm frankly surprised they've gone this long without their own PD/FD.

Interesting that they're using sales tax as the primary revenue source.

That sure makes me want to shop in Savoy. But I guess outsiders have long been an easy target (viz. hotel taxes).

"Falling behind" referred to providing basic city services, you know, like police and fire departments. If you bothered to read my post from 3:08 that mentioned "explosive growth" and my view that the city fathers have been a bit slow to react to their community bursting at its seams, you would know that "falling behind" wasn't talking about the city's population or housing growth.

Regardless of what happens with the MTD-Savoy circus, the notion that public transportation means more smog and more congestion is ludicrous. If you want to cut smog and congestion, try weaning people from taking solo trips by car.

I'm not interested in boycotting Savoy because of their sales tax or anything else. As you point out, that wouldn't likely be successful or worth the bother. But why should I bother shopping there if it costs me more than shopping in my own community?

Savoy has no representation on the MTD Board.  Actually NOBODY has any elected representation on the MTD Board.  OH and the MTD Board is accountable to NOBODY in their district who pays taxes for their service.  From these posts, it appears personal vendetas against the Village of Savoy are clouding the fact all you MTD taxpayers have NO CONTROL direct or indirect over anything the MTD Board does.  Your comments on Savoy rather than how the MTD is 'taking it to you" seem meaningless compared to the real problem------no direct representation for the taxpayers on the MTD BOARD------the perfect example of taxation without representation right here in the Land of Lincoln.  I am one Local Voter who is sick of this anti-American organization vailed behind a wall of "Public Benefit".  "Public Benefit" is what all the dictators of the world use to supress democracy.

Savoy is getting all the state and federal road construction funds, what? Do you not include the I57, I74 exits and road repairs, or Rte 130, 150 or 45 upgrades and repairs. I don't think Savoy has that many miles of roads even if you include the city streets. 

Savoy has a property tax rate that is about 75% of Champaign's.  Are the residents mooching?  Sure, probably a little.  So what can Champaign residents do about that?  Well, instead of crying at Savoy for paying too little, maybe they could pressure their own city council to work on lowering their rate.   Or park district, or MTD.  (Why is it assumed Savoys rate is too low, and not that Champaign's rate is too high?)

Or, move and be a moocher too.

In the thirty-six years I have lived in the CU area, I have yet to meet any mass transit "haters" or anyone who feels mass transit is not beneficial or needed here.  What I have seen develop over time is a growing disbelief in the Champaign Urbana Mass Transit management and governing board providing this service at such an extreme cost.  Most cannot understand why this public service needs the extra revenue of property taxes when most providers of mass transit do not have or need this income. 

Another meaningless "comment" from another Anonymous poster.  Is that you Tom or CU MTD board member, driver, employee?

Alright, damnit.  This crap is no better than what goes on with the IMC site.  You all bitch and moan that they accuse everybody who disagrees with them a "troll", but it someone comes on here and has something positive to say about the MTD, they must either be an MTD employee or Tom Costello.  Hell, I"ve had this accusation levied at me before, and a couple people here can most certainly confirm that i neither work for the MTD, moonlight as Tom Costello or serve on it's board.

Get the F over yourselves.  Most people in the community are just fine with the MTD the way it is, either through customer satisfaction or ignorance of the practices you disagree with.  Unless you have some real evidence that these comments are coming from the MTD, you are no better than the IMCistas you claim to be so different from.

"There's no reason to personally attack those with whom you disagree,"  unless your IP then its Ok.

Trying to get back on topic: "The requirement that one taxing body give 10 percent of its taxes to another taxing body is nuts. "

I really like this early comment as it points out the lack of knowledge since taxing bodies continually give taxes to other taxing bodies.

Forget the mileage numbers for now, I just want to know the names of the cities that supposedly have the better bus service.

Actually we can for some services like mass transit which aren't mandatory for every state resident.  We choose by deciding, to some degree, where to live and in which district to pay taxes.  Services like libraries and schools are required by the state for every resident.  Services like mass transit are not, and if people choose to live in an area without them, they (or their representatives) should have some say in whether they are annexed into it.

That's right – we choose by deciding where we live, not only in terms of which tax districts, but what type of propertty we choose. (This is relevant since we're taxed by the assessed value of our property,)

But once we move to a locale, we don't have the right to opt out of those taxes because they don't benefit us – other than by moving or other than expressing our voice to the appropriate governmental body.

What I really decry are the people who say "I don't benefit from it, therefore it's a waste of tax dollars". If I wanted to be small-minded about it, I could object to 2/3 of my property tax bill as useless to me. Instead, I prefer to look at "what is good for the community and therefore is good for me" rather than "what directly benefits me".

As far as annexation is concerned, the process balances people being masters of their own destiny vs. turning the community into a patchwork wherein some people get for free what other people pay for. Current law – probably imperfectly – recognizes that the residents of the area being annexed are not the sole stakeholders of an annexation proceeding.

This is a new problem for the Champaign-Urbana area, but is not a new problem. An interesting but old article states "Illinois municipalities are at the mercy of residents of fringe areas contiguous to a city or village .... Fringe area residents enjoy the benefits of municipal life but do not accept the responsibilities associated with such life .... In the last analysis, the problem boils down to the inadequacy of present public policy which supports the notion that it is appropriate for people to choose to be of a city or village, but not in that city or village." [Emphasis added.]

There is an impression in fringe areas like Savoy that the evil tax-sucking monster is spreading its tentacles farther, and there is an impression in Champaign-Urbana that Savoy is freeloading off C-U taxpayers. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

JRR- Most people don't complain about paying for schools, I think most people don't have children in school right now but see an educated child as positive for society. Taxpayers see the MTD as something positive for the community but nothing close to the level as schools. Right now it is very hard to get a tax increase for a building fund for schools. The MTD and the city have decided to just take over areas of the community with impunity by annexation at will, taxing without question. People have a problem with that attitude and that of unelected elected boards that say we don't have the right to question those taxes or to reduce them.

I know most urban areas are pretty compact and Mass transit fits better, not that it doesn't work here. We here in the hinterland are not quite ready for all that, heck we just got rid of the horses on main street. Things change and your probably right about income tax rather then property tax. If we could figure out a way to get there it would probably happen the tax thing that is.

Run4cvrlib said: JRR- Most people don't complain about paying for schools, I think most people don't have children in school right now but see an educated child as positive for society. Taxpayers see the MTD as something positive for the community but nothing close to the level as schools. Right now it is very hard to get a tax increase for a building fund for schools. The MTD and the city have decided to just take over areas of the community with impunity by annexation at will, taxing without question. People have a problem with that attitude and that of unelected elected boards that say we don't have the right to question those taxes or to reduce them.

I certainly don't complain about paying for schools, even as one who never had children. In the end it's one of the best investment people can make in the future. But if I were closed-minded and embittered about my "wasted" tax dollars, schools would be in my bullseye, because they're where most of my property tax dollars go. Compared to schools, the cost of the MTD to me is a pittance.

I think it's tragic that a community – particularly one home to an esteemed institution of higher learning – should have to beg for money for building and operating schools.

As to the transit issue, the MTD board answers to the county board and not directly to the electorate. As I stated in the discussion about elected U of I trustees, I'm not convinced that direct election is an effective solution or the best solution. However, there is no question that the MTD's attitude that "we can do what we want" did real harm; even if they do have the legal authority to annex territory with impunity, everyone would have been better served if the MTD board had been a bit more neighborly and less arrogant.

To carry your groceries? You use a folding cart, just like urban people across the world, and you carry an umbrella.  You can get the carts at Meijer, among other places. Ride the 100 or 20 any weekend, you'll see hordes of people carrying their groceries on the bus.

So LocalVoter has no specific cities to name?  

I ride the bus very often, to various parts of town, and I've been lucky, never had anyone poop on the bus (I sat in some spilled coffee on the "L" once in Chicago).  Hilarious part there was it dried brown on my pants, took me a moment to realize why after I transferred trains no one was standing next to ME :)

Here you go akibare: Try these towns for starters: Fort Walton Beach, Silverthorne & Waco. 
Now how about those ridership/mile numbers for the CU MTD. 

Hm? The one who offered numbers for MTD was not me.  I only have anecdotal experiences as a user.  I've not been to the cities you mention, I'm just always curious about what transit is like elsewhere.

I know and TIF districts still get there money and I think that was why there was a fight because the city didn't want to give up the money. I know that the U of I and the Champaign schools have been fighting because the U of I wanted to share the money from the Research Park with Urbana Schools no way. We pay enough taxes for our schools without having to pay for Urbana schools also.