If only Missouri allowed for concealed-carry.....oh wait, it does! I thought concealed-carry states didn't have this problem....this isn't exactly a glowing endorsement that concealed-carry prevents crime....
-----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
On February 8th, 2008 at 09:46 AM, Glock21 said:
Yeah, I support concealed carry but this is a very poor example to argue for it.
"Thornton was barred from City Council meetings but had made it known he would be at Thursday night's zoning meeting, KDSK reported, and extra police were assigned ahead of time."
I mean it's possible that an extra armed person or two who heard the initial gun shots could have aided, as the shooter was taking out the obvious armed defenders (police) as he rushed in for his target. But something went horribly wrong here even with extra armed officers around who were there specifically due to a potential incident by this guy. If anything this may be a better example of why concealed carry permits do little to stop someone from carrying concealed anyways. A permit violation is hardly a deterent to someone planning on facing the consequences of murder. On the flip-side if he was caught with it on the way there he would have likely been detained and arrested without the loss of life.
WHAT is going on lately? Deepest sympathies for all impacted by this insanity.
Laura
On February 8th, 2008 at 05:42 PM, ractivist said:
The fine print.....There are "no carry zones" with conceal carry, schools, bars, court houses and other government installations, such as this Missouri location which probably fell in this zone. That is part of conceal carry, there are restrictions to where one can legally carry. There are rules and regulations that the permit holder must follow at the risk of grave legal action.
None of these cases have any basis in respect to, disrespect conceal carry. Sorry. Get another soapbox.......to attempt to justify an un juatifiable position. Do the homework, read the facts. "Guns save lives" tens of thousands of times every year in the US alone, far more than are victims of legally owned and operated guns. People who abuse guns are the problem, lets blame the people. In Iraq they use bombs, in prison they use knives, in some countries they use rape. It is not the weapon as much as it is the people. Our society is awash with weapons and that won't be changing. I want to be able to fight fire with fire, when or if need be. If you choose not to, fine, that is your right, don't infringe on mine. Cuzz our society is awash with bad people as well, have you considered the extent of this problem. That is were you should be focused, not on our decision or desire to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
I too have the deepest sympathies for those caught up in the acts of mentally deranged people.
On February 8th, 2008 at 05:57 PM, Arvid said:
Do you have anything to add besides gunssavelife.com roadside signs and bullet points?
----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
On February 8th, 2008 at 06:26 PM, Regnad Kcin said:
The Kirkwood Mo case is a true tragedy.
It is also not surprising that the anti-gun crowd bumps every
instance of gun slaying to the top of the pile.
It seems that the main issue is a long standing feud between
the shooter and the powers that be. As sad as it is that innocent people are killed,
one does not feel that all of those targeted were among the innocent, however
certain it might be that the perpetrators now becoming victims were not deserving of death in any case.
I would hope that bureaucrats would be a little bit more cautious and
more humble and willing to work with unfortunate people after an incident like this.
On February 8th, 2008 at 06:34 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
That whole "guns save lives" mantra has always baffled me. When taken literally, it's a completely false statement. Guns are used to KILL people. They don't save lives, they take lives. I've never heard of someone who was choking on food or suffering from a heart attack to be saved by a gun.
I think the point that is trying to be made is that guns save some lives by taking other lives. In other words, they save the good guys by killing the bad guys. The problem becomes that sometimes the line between good and bad becomes quite blurry. Other times, it's pretty clear cut.
"Guns save some lives by taking other lives." That would be more a more accurate statement, but not quite as catchy and hard to put on a roadside sign. BTW, I own a lot of guns, from small pistols to shotguns to assault rifles. I believe in the 2nd amendment, but lets all be honest here...
On February 8th, 2008 at 06:51 PM, Run4cvrlib said:
Guns tend to scare bad guys away.
On February 8th, 2008 at 07:10 PM, Arvid said:
It is also not surprising that the anti-gun crowd bumps every instance of gun slaying to the top of the pile.
ewjohnson: did you miss the part where Gregg posted this? He's about as anti-anti-gun as you can get and not be ractivist.
-----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
On February 8th, 2008 at 08:09 PM, ewjohnson said:
What did I miss?
What did Glock say about me now?
On February 9th, 2008 at 05:34 PM, ractivist said:
Deterance, the act of stopping an unwanted situation. When bad guys know others are armed they tend not to attack. They would much rather attack unarmed people. As stupid as many are they are'nt all stupid. Guns can save lives without taking lives, it happens every day, deterance....Arvid, did you not read the post, I added quite a bit about conceal carry. It was not just an attack on anon, or an add for Guns Save Lives.com. The points are valid to the Missouri shooting.
As far as guns killing people, thats not true, bullets do.....accuracy here.
Lets all be honest here...people kill people, and it won't be stopping any time soon.
On February 9th, 2008 at 06:36 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
As far as guns killing people, thats not true, bullets do.....accuracy here.
First of all, this is ticky-tack BS. Quit being stupid. And if you really want to get into a pissing match over semantics, a bullet can't kill someone without a gun.
On February 9th, 2008 at 06:47 PM, Glock21 said:
"And if you really want to get into a pissing match over semantics, a bullet can't kill someone without a gun."
Well there is always lead poisoning. Sorry... couldn't help myself.
If only Missouri allowed for concealed-carry.....oh wait, it does! I thought concealed-carry states didn't have this problem....this isn't exactly a glowing endorsement that concealed-carry prevents crime....
-----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
Yeah, I support concealed carry but this is a very poor example to argue for it.
I mean it's possible that an extra armed person or two who heard the initial gun shots could have aided, as the shooter was taking out the obvious armed defenders (police) as he rushed in for his target. But something went horribly wrong here even with extra armed officers around who were there specifically due to a potential incident by this guy. If anything this may be a better example of why concealed carry permits do little to stop someone from carrying concealed anyways. A permit violation is hardly a deterent to someone planning on facing the consequences of murder. On the flip-side if he was caught with it on the way there he would have likely been detained and arrested without the loss of life.
--
Glock21 Op/Ed
Another shooting this morning at LSU:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/02/08/la.tech.shooting/index.html
Story Highlights:
Police: "No other students outside the classroom were in any danger"
WHAT is going on lately? Deepest sympathies for all impacted by this insanity.
Laura
The fine print.....There are "no carry zones" with conceal carry, schools, bars, court houses and other government installations, such as this Missouri location which probably fell in this zone. That is part of conceal carry, there are restrictions to where one can legally carry. There are rules and regulations that the permit holder must follow at the risk of grave legal action.
None of these cases have any basis in respect to, disrespect conceal carry. Sorry. Get another soapbox.......to attempt to justify an un juatifiable position. Do the homework, read the facts. "Guns save lives" tens of thousands of times every year in the US alone, far more than are victims of legally owned and operated guns. People who abuse guns are the problem, lets blame the people. In Iraq they use bombs, in prison they use knives, in some countries they use rape. It is not the weapon as much as it is the people. Our society is awash with weapons and that won't be changing. I want to be able to fight fire with fire, when or if need be. If you choose not to, fine, that is your right, don't infringe on mine. Cuzz our society is awash with bad people as well, have you considered the extent of this problem. That is were you should be focused, not on our decision or desire to protect ourselves and our loved ones.
I too have the deepest sympathies for those caught up in the acts of mentally deranged people.
Do you have anything to add besides gunssavelife.com roadside signs and bullet points?
----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
The Kirkwood Mo case is a true tragedy.
It is also not surprising that the anti-gun crowd bumps every
instance of gun slaying to the top of the pile.
It seems that the main issue is a long standing feud between
the shooter and the powers that be. As sad as it is that innocent people are killed,
one does not feel that all of those targeted were among the innocent, however
certain it might be that the perpetrators now becoming victims were not deserving of death in any case.
I would hope that bureaucrats would be a little bit more cautious and
more humble and willing to work with unfortunate people after an incident like this.
That whole "guns save lives" mantra has always baffled me. When taken literally, it's a completely false statement. Guns are used to KILL people. They don't save lives, they take lives. I've never heard of someone who was choking on food or suffering from a heart attack to be saved by a gun.
I think the point that is trying to be made is that guns save some lives by taking other lives. In other words, they save the good guys by killing the bad guys. The problem becomes that sometimes the line between good and bad becomes quite blurry. Other times, it's pretty clear cut.
"Guns save some lives by taking other lives." That would be more a more accurate statement, but not quite as catchy and hard to put on a roadside sign. BTW, I own a lot of guns, from small pistols to shotguns to assault rifles. I believe in the 2nd amendment, but lets all be honest here...
Guns tend to scare bad guys away.
It is also not surprising that the anti-gun crowd bumps every instance of gun slaying to the top of the pile.
ewjohnson: did you miss the part where Gregg posted this? He's about as anti-anti-gun as you can get and not be ractivist.
-----
"Another Anon with a worthless opinion" - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
"I guess I have little tolerance for people who just attack people just to do it and give no justification." - Run4cvrlib on 2/2/08
What did I miss?
What did Glock say about me now?
Deterance, the act of stopping an unwanted situation. When bad guys know others are armed they tend not to attack. They would much rather attack unarmed people. As stupid as many are they are'nt all stupid. Guns can save lives without taking lives, it happens every day, deterance....Arvid, did you not read the post, I added quite a bit about conceal carry. It was not just an attack on anon, or an add for Guns Save Lives.com. The points are valid to the Missouri shooting.
As far as guns killing people, thats not true, bullets do.....accuracy here.
Lets all be honest here...people kill people, and it won't be stopping any time soon.
As far as guns killing people, thats not true, bullets do.....accuracy here.
First of all, this is ticky-tack BS. Quit being stupid. And if you really want to get into a pissing match over semantics, a bullet can't kill someone without a gun.
"And if you really want to get into a pissing match over semantics, a bullet can't kill someone without a gun."
Well there is always lead poisoning. Sorry... couldn't help myself.
--
Glock21 Op/Ed