Your property tax bill is being sent out on May 2nd. But you can see the damage now.
The Most Unpopular Tax
Posted April 23rd, 2008 at 06:57 AM by Mark Shelden
Your property tax bill is being sent out on May 2nd. But you can see the damage now.
Yearly ransom time is almost upon us again. Paying for ineptness, pensions,,and nursing homes. I am glad I keep a brown paper bag handy this time of year. Air sickness.
Property taxes do stink. Whatever happened to HB 750? God forbid we should have somthing representing a progressive income tax that would rebate property taxes for most people...
Property tax isn't the most unpopular tax, the income tax is. Paying for ineptness, pensions, social security, welfare, subsidies, bailing out big corporations who pay little or no tax and then need to be propped up, and destroying a country or two only to pour more money into them to rebuild them.
Ironically, today is "income tax freedom day" meaning for most Americans, every dime you have earned so far this year up to today goes to the Feds.
While I agree that paying property tax is not my favorite thing to do, I feel compelled to mention the many people who would love to have the opportunity to pay property taxes, only because it means that they own property. Unfortunately there are many out in the real world for which this dream is out of reach. To be honest, I cheered my very first property tax bill because I had worked so long and hard to achieve the goal of home ownership and without a helping hand I would still be on the outside looking in. Let's not take for granted our good fortune in this regard.
Good point.
I know many that got caught up in the sub-prime fiasco that I would bet dont agree with you about now. They had a dream also,,,and got put in over their collective heads by greedy sub-prime lenders,that hustled the paper off before they had to hold the bag for when it all went south,,,then the government bailed some of them out, I like dreams myself:)
The reason property taxes are so unpopular is that you are billed for it once a year. If people were billed once a year for their sales tax there would be riots in the streets. That is why sales taxes are so insidious. It bleeds the taxpayer slowly so that they don’t notice they are being robbed blind.
Our current tax rate is 7.75% in Champaign. That is totally outrageous. For those of us who buy things we are essentially being taxed a flat 7.75% on our income on top of the income tax.
I still don't buy all this "poor victims of greedy sub-prime lenders" BS. If someone was a victim of fraud, then prosecute the fraud. But if someone was just too stupid or careless or greedy to understand the terms of the loan to which they voluntarily agreed, then they don't deserve any sort of government bailout. And neither do stupid, greedy or careless lenders and/or the mortgage purchasers who bought poorly issued loans. Period.
Absent fraud, let the market work. Government intervention, regardless of the sentimentality, will only make things worse.
To IlliniPundit--one ought not to be so quick to state that if there is fraud, prosecute thus. Since there is no established fauduciary responsible at any point in the loan process, prosecuting fraud becomes almost impossible, especially for those who already have potentially lost everything. There are plenty of people who refinanced in "good faith" only to have been lied to, had applications changed after signing, which the individual would not know about, been put into a loan category because of the payback incentive to the lender at a higher rate than appropriate for the individual's credit rating, but the borrower would not know this. The news coverage of this situation has been an embarrassment to those in that profession. The only decent explanation of the slicing and dicing of these loans was done by Paul Solomon on the News Hour, probably two weeks ago. One really needs to have a better understanding of the back story before being declarative.
Pattsi Petrie
Good point CP.
Granted, renters DO actually pay property tax passed on in rent, but it doesn't come in the form of that bill. I'll admit it was a neat moment the first time I paid an actual property tax bill in my name also (I rented my entire life until buying my house in 1999).
The "unless I REALLY screw up, I can't be evicted" feeling was great too...
Gordy,,,,I can see you are being pulled alittle more to the right:) Without government intervention at this point,,,the mortgage industry would be hard pressed to make legimate loans at this time. Oh well, I can wait until Jan, 20th 2009, then we shall see government intervention raised to a high art form. Then we can have a real party, Universal Health Care,,,,business taking our jobs overseas yet still wanting tax breaks,not,,,,,oh well, we can sort out the fun when the time comes. I look forward to about a nice 20-30 year period where the Democrats control the White House and the Congress:)
Government intervention, regardless of the sentimentality, will only make things worse.
Hmm...now if someone in government actually intervenes to reduces government intervention is that government intervention?
"There are plenty of people who refinanced in "good faith" only to have been lied to, had applications changed after signing, which the individual would not know about, been put into a loan category because of the payback incentive to the lender at a higher rate than appropriate for the individual's credit rating, but the borrower would not know this."
Evidence, please.
Corben Rice- I agree that it is a large bill when receiving it, but most mortgage companies will offer escrow for no charge to protect their investment in you. It should also come as no surprise to anyone who is purchasing a property what a tax bill will likely be in the next year or two therefore making it easy to budget money month to month (or paycheck to paycheck) to pay this bill when the time comes.
Gordy,I just e-mailed a few items to you from the Boston Globe,,,,maybe not going to court type evidence,,,but this is from guys in the business,,,,,the horses mouth so to speak:)
To clarify - I'm not saying there has been no fraud in the mortgage business. I'm saying that frauds should be prosecuted and remedied by the perpetrator rather than the victim bailed out by the government.
And if there was no fraud or evidence of fraud, then I'm unconvinced about tales of terms switched after contracts were signed and the like. Such things should be easy enough to prove - just look at the copy of the contract they signed at closing. And if they really were endemic, I suspect we'd be seeing lots of evidence of it in hyperventilating media exposes, rather than some people saying that frauds clearly happened but of course there's no evidence.
And, from Bruce, here's an example of one such media story. These victims deserve remedy from the criminal, if they charges are proven. And stories like this do nothing to justify a massive government bailout of borrowers and lenders who were victims of no fraud, just their own unwillingness to deal with the reality of their voluntarily-agreed-upon mortgage terms.
I did a refi recently. You have to sign like 20 documents - almost all the result of some disclosure law passed by gov't to protect me, the consumer.
What happened - there were so many documents that it becomes really easy to just sign what the lender puts in front of you without even looking at it.
Yes. The documentation can be overwhelming. But the borrower is entitled to a copy of everything, which is why I think it should be very easy to prove fraud such as alleged above: "have been lied to, had applications changed after signing, which the individual would not know about..."
If there is fraud, prosecute it. But don't use tax dollars from responsible mortgage payers to bail out borrowers and lenders who overreached.
I look forward to about a nice 20-30 year period where the Democrats control the White House and the Congress:)
Hmmm. The last time the Democrats had both the White House and Congress and pushed their liberal big government agenda, it lasted an entire 2 years. Can't wait.
Blago is in the running for Veep also,,,,,,,,now I know you are chomping at the bit:)
The sad thing is, in his own mind, Blago probably believes that he is on the short list for VP, and believes that a third term as governor will be his back-up. If you think Bush is divorced from reality, then Blago is not only divorced from it, but is under a restraining order to remain at least 1000 feet away from it!
WARNING ,PURE UNFOUNDED SPECULATION ALERT! At this point he might be wishing that if Obama gets elected, he might have friend that will give him a pardon, if needed:)
Following on Burce's speculation... Blago may be wanting Obama to get elected so that he can name himself as the junior senator from Illinois and then he can save Washington, thereby all of us.
For me, the most unpopular tax is FICA because it (theoretically) goes to thieving Baby Boomers who expect younger workers to subsidize their retirements. In reality, it goes to wherever the government decides it should, and then another IOU is placed into the system.
This is a response to IlliniPundit @ 10:30A where there was a request for evidence. Before I provide such, in turn it would be helpful to read evidence from IlliniPundit that all of the fraud statements are B.S. rather than just a statement. I do not see any facts or figures being provided, just a lot of rhetoric.
I just returned from the International Conference on Economic Justice for Women sponsored by the Institute for Women in Policy Research, a research organization that looks at various economic aspects that affect women. The url is www.iwpr.org, in case anyone would like to educate themselves on these issues. One of the sessions during the conference had to do with the subprime issues. The best source and most extensive for all of the data that you want to read and absorb can be found at http://www.responsiblelending.org/ and in particular the research reports at http://www.responsiblelending.org/research/ This will give you all the evidence to have a conversation based on data, not "B.S." to quote the IlliniPundit.
This organization first identified the problem in 1999 and tried to work on it on a state level, beginning in North Carolina, where the organization is located. As the research progressed, it became apparent that this was happening in all of the states and a state level solution would not work, so the organization began working on a federal level approach to rhein in what was happening and the "red lining"-type targeting of loans that was beginning to be identified from the research data. It took us a long time to identify and prove "red lining," but it was done, even in good ole C-U--where it was alive and well. This subprime mess began to surface when the deregulation went into effect in 1998.
Even though this information has been available since 1999 and growing as the research increased, the government did not kick into action until Baer and Sterns was going under.
Read about what it costs a bank to foreclose and carry a property. Then ask yourself why in the world don't the banks just deduct that amount from the loan cost and keep people in their homes. Also no bank wants to carry properties on the books.
Pattsi Petrie
Property tax's unpopularity might come from its unfairness in funding education.
Nice Ms. Petrie. Innocent until proven guilty, unless it's corporate America. In order to do what you want, IP would have to access every single one of the millions of mortgage documents out there. So why don't you go back and give us the proof of the fraud.
I hate the property tax more than the income tax, even though I typically pay a lot more in income tax. The reason is that I have a highly flucuating income from year to year. The income tax takes this into account but the property tax does not. When my income tax is higher it's because I have the means to pay the higher tax (due to the income). When my income tax is lower it's because I don't have as much to pay (because I didn't earn it that year). But the property tax just goes up and up regardless of how much I have that year. Mine is up 50% in the last 7 years or so.
In other words, if I have the money to pay the tax then I don't mind so much, but when I don't I really do mind. The property tax pays no attention to this. I would much rather see schools (the main reason our property taxes are so high) financed on income taxes instead. That way they'd get more of my money some years and less others, but at least it would be tied to some reality.