Open Thread (7/8/2008)

Posted July 8th, 2008 at 04:33 AM by IlliniPundit

Open Thread

Tuesday, July 8, 2008.

IlliniPundit's blog

On July 8th, 2008 at 08:33 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

The Fair and Balanced network gets caught photoshopping photos of people they don't like to make them ugly. Too funny.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200807020002

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:09 AM, AnF said:

And what would stop the George Soros funded "Media Matters" from doctoring up the pictures, then pointing the finger at Fox? Are we supposed to believe that Fox would use such obviously distorted pictures like that on the air?

Lame. Really lame.... Good use of being able to post anonymously.

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:23 AM, Arvid said:

Yes, because Fox News can do no wrong. They've never had "graphical problems" of any kind in the past. They've never mis-reported something, then just stopped reporting their lie instead of issuing a retraction like a responsible media outlet would. Nope, they're fair and balanced!

Lame. Really lame.... Good use of being able to post anonymously.

Says "AnF"...

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:29 AM, Run4cvrlib said:

Yes, because Fox News can do no wrong.--can you give an example when they have purposely done this?

I can name Dan Rather who no longer works for his network.

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:42 AM, Arvid said:

Oh, let's just go with an easy one of when Fox News repeatedly reported from a widely debunked source that Obama was "raised as a muslim by his father", any kind of real retraction, just said "The Obama camp denies these allegations", and moved on. Didn't Dan Rather "retire" because of similar shady fact-checking?

Or how about their little chyron "goof" of referring to Michelle as Barack's "baby mama"? Anybody who has worked in or been around the control room during any newscast knows that there is no such thing as a chyron goof like that. That was previewed and approved by more than one person, and nobody thought to say "hmm, maybe this isn't appropriate.

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:46 AM, xian said:

I'm unclear on what's being debated here. Whether the original poster was Anonymous or you don't like George Soros has nothing to do with the core charge.

Let's break this down non-partisanly:

1. How bad (if at all) would it be if a news organization doctored photos to distort reality on the public airwaves?

2. Fact: There are two versions of the pictures. Do you think they come from the same original? (They look exactly the same!)

3. Which version came first? Do you think FoxNews doctored the photos or do you think two completely independent groups besides MM doctored the photos and then claimed them as individuals? Have you looked at other photos of the journalists? Why does FoxNews happen to have the only photos of them where they look anything like this? Did their noses grow suddenly for Fox's photo gallery?

4. Do you endorse to changing of perceived "opponents'" facial features to attack them? It seems like there's quite a lot of historical precendent for that practice. Is that the type of politics you endorse?

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:56 AM, xian said:

Wow, there are actually tons of people defending this: the reporters are evil people, so it's ok to lie and demonize them...once again, I ask you what type of path this lack of interest in truth leads us down :(

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2008/07/03/fox-news-doctors-ny-times-photos/#comments

On July 8th, 2008 at 11:02 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

Lame. Really lame....

I'd say you've hit de nial on de haed. Yeah, yeah, it must have been those evil Soros people who retouched the photos, because Fox is Fair And Balanced and would never do anything underhanded -- like, say, suggesting that the fist dap on the night Obama clinched the nomination was actually a terrorist signal.

But what else would you expect from a network run by Tricky Dick's very own communications director? Certainly not honesty. Just a nice little bubble for those who still want to believe that George Bush didn't screw things up more totally than a roomful of margarita blenders.

On July 8th, 2008 at 12:40 PM, John Bambenek said:

Who cares? You shouldn't be watching the news for your information anyway.

--
j
Part-Time Pundit

On July 8th, 2008 at 12:42 PM, xian said:

I don't think apathy is the proper response in this situation.

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:24 PM, AnF said:

Speaking of never doing wrong, the approval rating of the democrat controlled Congress is now at an all time historical (or is it hysterical?) low of NINE PERCENT, according to Rasmussen.

Woo Hoo! I'm still waiting for Nancy Pelosi's common sense plan to lower gas prices, which she spoke of in 2006. Let's see, in the spring of 2006, the price of a gallon of gas at the Mobil station at North Neil and I-74 was $2.69. What a bargain that was....

By the way, has a non-fake copy of B. Hussein Obama's birth certificate ever surfaced yet?

BTW, "Arvid" isn't any better than "AnF". Just so you realized that, dood.

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:28 PM, AnF said:

And... when will John F. Kerry, who served in Vietnam, ever collect that million bucks from T. Boone Pickens?

Wow. Just to leave a million bucks lying there on the table. Because we all know that those tales the swift-boaters told was nothing but a pack of lies...

Aw, well. He's got all of his wife's money to live off of instead.

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:29 PM, Run4cvrlib said:

Oh, let's just go with an easy one of when Fox News repeatedly reported from a widely debunked source that Obama was "raised as a Muslim by his father", That's a Boston Channel saying the Fox channel said that Obama was a raised as a Muslim. I have never heard Fox say he was raised as a Muslim. You can't trust the MSM's you should know better :-). Was not so easy after all. That was previewed and approved by more than one person-Yes Arvid you are just an expert about everything and of course every conservative is a jerk at Fox. I would say the guy that spends tens of millions of dollars on liberal causes may have a bias.

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:30 PM, xian said:

By the way, has a non-fake copy of B. Hussein Obama's birth certificate ever surfaced yet?

Party/Network of Hate.

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:37 PM, Arvid said:

BTW, "Arvid" isn't any better than "AnF". Just so you realized that, dood.

It's not, but I'm not complaining about people hiding behind an anonymous name while using an anonymous username myself. I'm pointing out the irony to you.

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 02:46 PM, Arvid said:

That's a Boston Channel saying the Fox channel said that Obama was a raised as a Muslim. I have never heard Fox say he was raised as a Muslim. You can't trust the MSM's you should know better :-).

It was incredibly easy, you're just unwilling to see past your blatant reactionary bias. Do you watch Fox News 24/7? If not, then just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Several sources reported that it did, but that's not good enough for you, is it?

Yes Arvid you are just an expert about everything and of course every conservative is a jerk at Fox. I would say the guy that spends tens of millions of dollars on liberal causes may have a bias.

I'm not an expert about everything, but there are a few things that I would say my knowledge and experience dwarfs any "conclusion" that you may have. I worked in the control room of a local station for several years. My mother worked at the same station for over 20 years in the newsroom and producing newscasts. What is your experience in news production again? Nothing like that goes up "accidentally". All chyron texts are proofread and reviewed for every segment and every story. Multiple people dropped the ball with the "baby mama" incident, but if you want to bury your head in the sand and ignore facts on yet another topic you know absoultely nothing about, go right ahead. Just don't act surprised when you are called out for being ignorant.

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 03:44 PM, Narc said:

Who cares? You shouldn't be watching the news for your information anyway.

Correct. Every American should, instead, travel to Iraq to judge for themselves how the war is going. The problem is that it takes a while. Not every elected official has time to do 350 million interviews. You shouldn't rely on scientific publications to learn about science, either. You should have to do all the experiments again, yourself.

On July 8th, 2008 at 04:25 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

Shorter AnF: PLEASE change the subject to *anything* except Fox News being caught red-handed! PLEASE!

On July 8th, 2008 at 05:41 PM, Glock21 said:

The video on the media matters link was the most revealing that it was an intentional act by fox an friends to lampoon the people criticizing their network. Not only did they use the distorted pictures when ripping on them... the used the distorted photos in a full photoshopped picture with one of their faces on a poodle and the other face on the guy holding the leash of the 'attack poodle.'

Childish would be a better criticism of what they were doing. Fox and Friends is a childish show for news. If you're ever channel surfing in the morning and run across it... you'll have plenty more criticism than this bit of silliness.

The Obama raised in a madrassa story was also just biased idiocy. They reported that the story was from another outlet, but given the inflammatory nature of the hit piece, it required far more skepticism if it were mentioned at all. It certainly deserved some scrutiny and confirmation before it was repeated without some high degree of skepticism. That was also reported during Fox and Friends (video available on YouTube) which has the journalistic integrity of the National Enquirer. Utter crap. When they reported on McCain being badgered in South Carolina over all the "VIP POW" rumors being spread by the conspiracy theorists down there the skepticism was laid on thick. When Obama was rumored to be a 'secret muslim' it got raised eyebrows and a 'you decide.' Info-tainment at its finest.

Glock21 Op/Ed

On July 8th, 2008 at 06:10 PM, Glock21 said:

Of course cable news without the mind numbing filler might be pretty boring... though far less damaging:

Glock21 Op/Ed

On July 8th, 2008 at 07:34 PM, Run4cvrlib said:

It was incredibly easy, you're just unwilling to see past your blatant reactionary bias. Do you watch Fox News 24/7? If not, then just because you didn't hear it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Oh, let's just go with an easy one of when Fox News repeatedly reported from a widely debunked source that Obama was "raised as a Muslim by his father",

Gee I wouldn't have thought I would have had to watch 24/7 to hear it, if they were "repeatedly" reporting the story.

My mother worked at the same station for over 20 years in the newsroom and producing newscasts. I don't care what you did in your basement before you moved away from home, it doesn't mean they do things the same way at Fox.

On July 8th, 2008 at 07:47 PM, redstatewannabe said:

that's not necessary, Run. :-(

On July 8th, 2008 at 08:04 PM, Run4cvrlib said:

Oh I don't know, Arvid sure likes to attack everyone else and currently is making fun of you in this thread with his continued use of his signature statement. My comment is made more in fun but is in response to yet another personal attack of a bias I don’t have in response to an unfounded attack on conservatives. So maybe you should be talking to Arvid.

On July 8th, 2008 at 08:41 PM, IlliniPundit said:

"that's not necessary, Run. :-("

Agreed.

"Oh I don't know, Arvid sure likes to attack everyone else and currently is making fun of you in this thread with his continued use of his signature statement."

Quoting RSW in his signature isn't making fun of him. It's just quoting him.

On July 8th, 2008 at 09:06 PM, Arvid said:

Gee I wouldn't have thought I would have had to watch 24/7 to hear it, if they were "repeatedly" reporting the story.

I'm really curious why you are having such a hard time beliving this. Would you prefer I pay for a transcript? I'm almost set to do that.

I don't care what you did in your basement before you moved away from home, it doesn't mean they do things the same way at Fox.

Cute, but anyway...So you're saying that FOX doesn't proofread their stories and chyrons before they air? You're saying that FOX just flies by the seat of their pants and doesn't make sure their reports say what they want them to? You really believe that their morning talk show is not scripted in any way? I guess this would make them different than, oh I don't know, every other station in the entire broadcast industry.

If you really want to go down this road, be my guest, bu didn't your savior say something about glass houses and stones? This coming from the person whose name is "run4cvrlib", and who regularly paints liberals with the same broad brush, and has made much more derogatory remarks toward many of the left-leaning people and the liberal viewpoint in general. But you don't have a conservative/reactionary bias at all. No, it's just those damn liberals with their facts and figures and citations that have the gall to prove you wrong yet again. Shame on them for not blindly trusting your expert opinion.

I also recall you recently saying that if they start insulting you, then you know you've won. Therefore, I graciously accept your admission of defeat and ignorance of this subject. In my acceptance, I also encourage you to please take further steps to educate yourself about the topic at hand before you rely on your years of experience as a.......well, I don't know what you do, but I'm willing to bet it has nothing to do with broadcasting, energy production, actuarial analysis (or math in general), environmental science or anything else that we've talked about that you just echo whatever you heard on Fox or Rush recently instead of looking up facts and figures yourself.

As for my signature quote, would you prefer I switch it back to the previous one that shows you making personal attacks and then complaining about them in the same thread? I don't mind if you don't.

-----
At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 09:23 PM, xian said:

This reminds me of when I was in Little League and you got those parents who would insist that their kids who actually just sucked at baseball was getting squeezed by the umpire and would run out on to the field and accuse him of being Hitler or something else dumb.

This is a so-called news organization that inflated the facial features of a hated group of people to attack them. I don't see how this is remotely defensible and if it makes you angry, please don't shoot the messenger.

If you don't like to be called out, try supporting people who are halfway decent human beings. It should not be too hard to find some right-wing people who fit the description--I am able to do this and I imagine I meet less of them than you do.

On July 8th, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Run4cvrlib said:

I really don't care what you do Arvid because you seem to make it up as you go along. Trying to have a conversation with you means little because you ignore any creditable response or change the subject. I don't attack all liberals just the ones that attack me. As for my signature quote, would you prefer I switch it back to the previous one that shows you making personal--Of course that comment was taken out of context and was just identifying what has become a real problem on this blog anonymous posters. I suppose this isn't a threat to ridicule and make fun of another poster, I guess it proves my point. As I have posted before we must give the liberals a pass when they attack others. Xian, I get tired of the blanket attacks (and if you're making the blanket attacks then yes you are going to be questioned), like in this case all of the people of Fox News based on a few people who made some stupid mistakes. I don't make broad brush attacks I identify individuals as liberal and then respond to their attacks.

On July 8th, 2008 at 11:38 PM, Arvid said:

I really don't care what you do Arvid because you seem to make it up as you go along.

What in the hell are you talking about here? You do know that people change jobs, yes?

Trying to have a conversation with you means little because you ignore any creditable response or change the subject.

No, I usually stay on subject. The only subject changes have been from AnF, who posted the Bob the Builder parody and you accusing us durn lllllliberals of getting a pass on personal attacks. Should we re-hash the Chief Illiniwek thread where everyone, including IP, pointed out your gross miscalculation on what majority means. Or how about the ANWR analysis where when the facts didn't fit your argument? I'm sure I can find more if I start digging more than just at the surface, I can find more examples.

I don't attack all liberals just the ones that attack me.

Reading through this thread, the first "personal attack" used between you and I was made by you at 2:29pm: yes Arvid you are just an expert about everything.

Of course that comment was taken out of context and was just identifying what has become a real problem on this blog anonymous posters. I suppose this isn't a threat to ridicule and make fun of another poster, I guess it proves my point.

What point is that again? I'm having a hard time sifting through your subject changes here.

As I have posted before we must give the liberals a pass when they attack others.

Show me where a pass is given. I challenge you to back this up. I recall being admonished in a recent thread for going over the line. Where was my attack pass then? I demand that my Liberal Pass to Personally Attack Conservatives be updated immediately!

Xian, I get tired of the blanket attacks (and if you're making the blanket attacks then yes you are going to be questioned),

If you're tired of blanket attacks, perhaps you should stop making them?

like in this case all of the people of Fox News based on a few people who made some stupid mistakes.

Now we're up to a few people who made stupid mistakes. If it was an isolated incident, that would be one thing, but Fox News has a history of less than ethical reporting. In this thread alone, we have brought up three separate instances of Fox News doing just that. Once is a goof, but after a while, it starts to become a pattern. Surely there aren't the same "few people" making all of these bad decisions and every other person involved in the airing is just a pawn. You'd think they would be fired by now. At least, any respectable news outlet would have fired them if they were the same people always causing their network to look bad.

I don't make broad brush attacks I identify individuals as liberal and then respond to their attacks.

So if someone doesn't agree with you, they must be a liberal. Well, I guess when you're as far-right as you can get, everybody else is technically to the left =) If it was earlier in the day, I'd probably be combing though the archives and pulling out some great gems from you. I'm going to start keeping track of this from now on, just to make this easier in the future.

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 8th, 2008 at 11:47 PM, Arvid said:

Yes, because Fox News can do no wrong.--can you give an example when they have purposely done this?

Since you wanted more, I found the actual video from that episode where they spread the rumor that he was a former Madrassa student. That seems pretty darn purposeful to me.

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

On July 9th, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

For the record, Bill-O has admitted Fox "News" retouched the photos.

Reality 1, Fox 0.

On July 9th, 2008 at 11:22 AM, nattering.nabob said:

Okay, all the whining about anonymity made me finally decide to get an IP account. My getting an account, natch, does nothing to change the following:

(1) Fox "News" photoshopped photos of people they didn't like to make them uglier (i.e. deliberately showed photos they knew they'd faked).

(2) Bill-O has admitted it -- after they were caught, of course -- despite AnF's fervent bubble-protecting hope that it's all just a Soros plot. Pity the foo' who gets his "news" from Fox.

(3) Only about one person in four thinks the Bush presidency has been a success.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh-hstry.htm

On July 9th, 2008 at 11:32 AM, IlliniPundit said:

"Okay, all the whining about anonymity made me finally decide to get an IP account."

Sweet! Thank you!

And nice avatar...

Open Thread (7/8/2008)

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