Open Thread (8/19/2008)

Posted August 19th, 2008 at 01:05 AM by IlliniPundit
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Tuesday, August 19, 2008.

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Glock21's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 07:25 AM, Glock21 said:

Anybody else catch Obama's most recent Iraq flub?

 

"But I was firmly convinced at the time that we did not have strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction..." - Obama at the Saddleback forum this weekend.

"Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity." - Obama in his infamous 2002 speech that his is sole claim to fame with 'judgment'

 

Now he can't even figure out why he made the call he did... four years after admitting he didn't know how he would have voted on the matter in spite of his opposition two years before that.  Is Obama intentionally trying to destroy his one claim to fame?  Or was his 2002 opposition just pandering to his south side constituency as many of his opponents have claimed and he honestly has no clue (as he's admitted) on how and why he'd make the call even half a decade after the fact? 

 

Hindsight is 20/20... but some people call it judgment.

 

--

Glock21 Op/Ed

akibare's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 08:33 AM, akibare said:

Well, it's clear that Hussein had, in his HISTORY, developed chemical and biological weapons - he used them in 1988 to gas a village, an action which was reported on about page 30 or so of the Urbana Courier (yes, I've read the article).  So yes, not a nice guy.  Proved he had that gas by in fact using it to "butcher his own people" - back in 1988.

 

Doesn't mean he still had any gas left in 2002, however.

 

Mind, I didn't hear either of those speeches live, but just from the quotes here, it doesn't strike me as necessarily contradicting, no.  Plus, it doesn't change that he didn't vote for war in Iraq.

 

On August 19th, 2008 at 08:52 AM, prairie biker said:

How could he vote for the war in Iraq when he didn't even join the Senate until 2005????

On August 19th, 2008 at 08:53 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

"Plus, it doesn't change that he didn't vote for war in Iraq."

 

He wasn't a US Senator at that time, was he?  He was just starting to campaign for the '04 election, and yes, he was pandering to the ACORN/ rev. Pfleger activists he needed to get out the vote. 

Glock21's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 09:19 AM, Glock21 said:

"Well, it's clear that Hussein had, in his HISTORY, developed chemical and biological weapons..."

 

I'm glad to know what he meant to say is that Saddam had developed them but no longer had them.  Something he failed to say at the time, since his argument at the time was not that Iraq didn't have WMDs, but rather that Iraq could be contained and wasn't an imminent threat.

 

I'm sure he meant to say somewhere in that speech that they didn't have WMDs anymore too though.  Unfortunately from what we know he was just as wrong on that judgment as his fellow repub and dem colleagues (and the UN Security Council members who he wants to put in sole charge of intervening in genocide).  Just as he was on the surge leading to more violence.  Of course what he meant to say there was that it certainly would lead to less.  His hindsight, er... judgment, is incredible.  At least the judgment he meant.

 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

On August 19th, 2008 at 09:39 AM, Ralph Langenheim (not verified) said:

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is tying its shoes." Mark Twain -- Ralph Langenheim

On August 19th, 2008 at 02:48 PM, Bruce Byrd said:

I am mildly surprised that no one has said a peep about the teachers in Texas being allowed to pack heat into the class rooms.

Glock21's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 04:13 PM, Glock21 said:

From what I heard the Texas teacher/guns issue was just one locality that has a school (I'm guessing that serves multiple smaller towns) that is distant from any law enforcement that could respond to a violent incident.  The idea is to allow teachers with permits to carrry concealed on the premises seeing they've already had the training and the scrutiny of the permit process as opposed to hiring armed security or something of the sort, which is probably a bit pricy for the unlikely scenario that something awful happens there.   From what I understand it was unanimously passed local issue, that is unlikely to become a norm in too many places since most states prohibit such concealed carry on school grounds and other places, and it's unlikely to have the same kind of local support as what I'm assuming is a fairly rural region of Texas where 'school shootings' probably refer more often to sporting events as opposed to tragic criminal incidents.

 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

On August 19th, 2008 at 04:38 PM, prairie biker said:

Here's an interesting website I found:

 

http://www.mccainpalin.com/

 

I wonder if it's real or a hoax?

IlliniPundit's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 05:03 PM, IlliniPundit said:

Hoax.  I doubt the McCain campaign is using a super-cheap hosting service like Dreamhost as their domain registrar:

Registrant Contact:
mccainpalin.com Private Registrant mccainpalin.com@proxy.dreamhost.com
DreamHost Web Hosting
417 Associated Rd #324
Brea, CA 92821
US
+1.2139471032

On August 19th, 2008 at 05:27 PM, wayward said:

Wonder if it was one of those sites trying to push Palin for VP?  She'd be an interesting choice, though.

akibare's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 06:22 PM, akibare said:

I don't know what he "MEANT to say."  I merely say that what *I* read into the juxtaposition of those two quotes is not contradictory. ME. MY reaction, which is "meh."

 

So for me, no, it's not any kind of "ZOMG Obama flip-flopped!1!1!!!!!" moment.

I'm sure you'll find more tomorrow.

 

Glock21's picture
On August 19th, 2008 at 08:09 PM, Glock21 said:

Well a 'flip-flop' wasn't really my concern.  It was his apparent lack of understanding even his own arguments for the hardest decision in his political career.  The one that he's been basing his entire campaign on when it comes to foreign policy credentials.

 

Sorry for going off on my meant/said rant on you.  It's probably not fair for me to do that, it just hit a nerve since it seems like that's how Obama's comments are generally neutralized when they reveal something bad about him.  The meaning is just changed with the hope that people will buy that.  To your credit though you were probably coming up with that rationalization on your own... the numerous others I've seen along the same lines seemed to be coming from some talking point memo floating around the web.  Sorry I pounced on yours, I was just generally annoyed by the response before you even made it.  Flip-flops I can live with, if they're improvements imo.

 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

On August 19th, 2008 at 09:20 PM, wayward said:

Hoax.  I doubt the McCain campaign is using a super-cheap hosting service like Dreamhost as their domain registrar:

Registrant Contact:
mccainpalin.com Private Registrant mccainpalin.com@proxy.dreamhost.com
DreamHost Web Hosting
417 Associated Rd #324
Brea, CA 92821
US
+1.2139471032

The site was also created on January 29, 2008 and updated on July 1.  Wonder if it's a domain squatter hoping to make some easy money.  The site http://www.mccainpawlenty.com is also taken, and so is mccainromney.com and mccainridge.com.  If you pull up obamarichardson.com, you get redirected to a site that's selling campaign-related domain names.

On August 20th, 2008 at 09:55 AM, pattsi said:

This Texas school district has 170 students K-12. Since this is Texas, one probably can not assume that this idea will not be considered by other school districts.

Pattsi Petrie