McCain's choice?

From Jonah Goldberg at the Corner at NRO,re Palin:

Quick, and provisional bottom line:  The upside: She's the best of the dark horses because she's an exciting, exotic (yet heartlandish) female pick.  The base will love her. She's a true outsider and the only person in the race with serious executive experience. This will have to mean McCain's flipping on ANWR, which will make gas prices a central issue.

Downside: She may not be ready for primetime. The heartbeat-from-the-presidency issue is a real one.  (emphasis mine)

that downside is big, but she would be a bold choice.

Larry Kudlow says:

She’s a strong pro-life, supply-side, drill-drill-drill-ethics reformer who has worked hard to change the Ted Stevens culture-of-corruption problem in Alaska

I think that McCain knows he is toast,,,,and is doing the right and noble thing,,,he is putting a bright, young female hard charger in a position to make a move in four years or maybe eight. 

Lots of people in the current executive branch of government have oil industry backgrounds, Bush, Chaney, Rice etc.  They are all leaving in a few months, hopefully not back to the oil industry.

Just been listening to her  on the radio,,,,,,,they should switch the ticket and put McCain as the V-P>

No telling how this turns out, but Obama's gotta be freaking out today.

The Suntimes just cracked me up,,story line,,,"Brillant pick,,or another Dan Quayle in a dress"  Funny stuff :)

Otherwise, I think it's going to get pretty clear pretty quick that she's just going to talk the same talk as the old men of the GOP.

In case you missed it, she ran against an old man of the GOP in a primary for Gov.

but does anybody really expect her to come out on top of, say, a foreign policy debate with Joe Biden?

She doesn't need to do so - that is McCain's baby.  She just needs to be competent.

Well, country first I guess.  Picking a first-term governor with less than two years in office from one of the smallest (population) states in the union.  No foreign policy experience.  No national leadership experience.  Golly, do you think she's "Ready to Lead"?

And McCain will be tied with the Gipper as the oldest president ever sworn in if he wins.  We all remember how Ronnie struggled those last few years.

I wish I could say I was surprised that a man of McCain's so-called integrity would use the VP slot to just play political gamesmanship.  Unfortunately, it is not surprising any more.  He has obviously turned his campaign over to Schmidt and the rest of the right-wing politicos.  If I had much respect left for the man, I think I just lost it.

It makes Biden look like that much more of a strong, sober pick.

Goodnight, Irene.

"No foreign policy experience.  No national leadership experience."

And a heartbeat away from the presidency!!!  How could they have nominated Obama?  Silly DNC.  Wait... who are we talking about again?

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Glock21 Op/Ed

"Her husband is an oil man."

"Because McCain picked a hard-right pro-lifer tied to the oil industry?"

Her husband was/is a commerical fisherman and was/is a union steelworker.  I'm not saying the oil thing is wrong, I just haven't seen this in any of the media accounts. 

FWIW I'm guessing that her career contributions from ExxonMobil pale in comparison to Obama's

Governor Palin will be an effective, formidable candidiate.

McCain certainly has had substantial discussions with her the past months.

Michael Fuerst             

Biden was widely anticipated.  Palin?  Not much time to contrive.

but the GOP hailing of this choice feels just about as contrived as the exuberant reaction to the Biden choice.

Let me speak for many conservatives by saying that we are happy that McCain has chosen one of us.  Not Lieberman, not Ridge.  Pawlenty seemed ok, but not exciting. 

McCain the Mav makes us nervous - this pick gives us some hope that he won't leave us completely.

"I think Obama may want to leave this alone..."

But I think you have things backwards -- Obama will be more than happy to drop the inexperience debate.  McCain gave up his advantage when he selected Sarah Palin.

"Palin has run and won a few offices..."

Not a few -- two.  She was mayor of an 8,500-person small Alaskan town (think Tuscola times 2.)  And she was elected governor in a "anybody but Murkowski" race in which even Ted Stevens and his son couldn't help their buddy Frank.

And now she's dealing with her own ethics investigation -- seems she fired the guy who wouldn't fire her state trooper ex-brother-in-law over some nasty marital stuff.  Sources abound.

Obama's wishful thinkers here learned all they know about Alaskan government from Talking Points Memo today.

"A far better choice, Marci, at least Illinois is a real state, not some wilderness yahoo place with only a few more than zero people living there."

RSWB, even I am walking away from this one, and Marci is a very good friend...

I think McCain will have to address the criticism that this was largely a ham-handed choice:  "Need woman.  Hillary supporters undecided.  Gender means everything; platform means nothing.  Get woman, get Hillary supporters."  And why not Hutchinson or Dole?  If he's addressing the age issue, isn't he admitting it's an issue?

No, spoken by a rock-ribbed Republican who worked the streets getting out the vote in 1968 and ever since. One who is saddened by McCain, his policies, his shortcomings, and now his choice for VP.

Thank you for your assumptions.

My bad - I was fooled by the "yahoo wilderness place" reference.  My apologies.

Everyone has to be from somewhere.  Judge Palin by her accomplishments and by her values.  Would you have rather had an experienced Senator from the populous NE to be the #2 on the ticket - like Lieberman?  As I have already stated, I am just happy to see at least 1 conservative on the ticket.

cheer up and read what the Hard-R's are saying

http://corner.nationalreview.com/

McCain the Mav thinks he can fight for the independents - he needed something to fire up the base.  I think Palin does that.  As for being tough - well, she is from Alaska.

Oops - this just in.  Apparently besides being mayor of that town, and her non-existent international experience with Japan and Russia, Palin can boast:

In 1982, she was given the nickname “Sarah Barracuda’’ for leading her high school basketball team to the state championship, and in 1984 she won the beauty pageant – as well as the title of Miss Congeniality – in her hometown of Wasilla, Alaska.

Miss Congeniality!  Yes!  Oh, and she did some really great stuff in high school.

I am sure Putin is shaking in his boots right now.

I found this "list" of accomplishments. There aren't many/any sources directly cited, but I'm sure you could find them once you knew where to look.

"Obama's wishful thinkers here learned all they know about Alaskan government from Talking Points Memo today."

Nice try, but my sister and brother-in-law have lived in Alaska and worked for the federal government for 20+ years.  My nephew is a career Army man married to an Alaskan native.  I have been hearing about Palin for a long time.

Well -- two years anyway...

Boon.

Your crap gets really tiring.

I did not say she had any experience negotiating treaties and the commentor to whom you responded took my previous statement out of context. If you guys want to argue, at least get it right. I said she had experience on the operating end of treaties - in other words - their nuts and bolts implementation. If you don't think dealing with the Russians and Japanese over fishing and oil and gas rights is significant, well, I suppose that's your right.

I don't think anybody is going to reasonably argue that she does not have a lot of experience, but she's still an exciting candidate and her selection is the nail in the coffin for Obama's campaign of hypocrisy.  In fact, if you go through his acceptance speech last night it was simply one empty promise after another (tax relief for those who already don't pay taxes, capital gains tax for small businesses that already don't pay capital gains, not the same old guard while picking a 40 year Senator for a running mate, etc etc etc.). Give me a break.

It couldn't have anything to do with her fiscal policies, especially a near religious opposition to earmarks (sound familiar?), nor could it have anything to do with her corruption busting ways and thwarting her own party in doing the right thing (sound familiar?)... as McCain pointed out numerous times on the campaign trail, he intended to pick someone who matched his own philosophy and politics for the VP.  She fits the bill, especially on what she's best known for.  She fits his message and his viewpoints and compliments the ticket in other political (and some obvious pandering) ways.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

Nonsense. This is McCain's "Harriet Miers" moment.

That's okay, Glock. It'll probably take a day or so before the wisdom of what I said will start to truly sink in. After all, loyal GOP spent the first day or so telling everyone what a terrific choice Miers was too. Then came the hangover.

That's okay, Glock. It'll probably take a day or so before the wisdom of what I said will start to truly sink in.

Oh, I don't know.  It took years for anyone around here to acknowledge that things were going swimmingly in Iraq.  They'll figure out what kind of mistake this was on November 5th.

What I find interesting is the palatable defensiveness of these comments.  Man, are you folks on edge.  Someone please scream at us one more time about how great this nobody from nowhere who's never done anything actually is.  Oh, and if we could get another repeat of the "lemonade stand" line I think that would help.

Again, even if Obama loses the election historians (conservative and otherwise) will look at his primary campaign as brilliant and historic.  Not only because he crafted a careful message that made a black man acceptable to a majority of primary voters, but also because he dismantled the Clinton legacy and power grip in the DNC.  I think Roger Simon at Politico has already started to corner the market on telling that story, but it is a significant story to tell, for sure.

So to say that Obama doesn't have as much experience as Palin is pretty ridiculous.  Not that actual truth has anything to do with it.  After all, the same people who are claiming Obama has no experience (hasn't run a lemonade stand) are claiming that winning some little GOP in-fight in Alaska is sufficient experience to be second in line to the most powerful political position on planet Earth.

But, as always, hypocrisy is the greatest luxury.  Raise the double standard!

I said she had experience on the operating end of treaties - in other words - their nuts and bolts implementation. If you don't think dealing with the Russians and Japanese over fishing and oil and gas rights is significant, well, I suppose that's your right.

So she's had to "deal" with "the Russians and Japanese" over territorial waters?  Can you give us an example of these important dealings?

Uhh, where's the evidence of this? I'm honestly curious - I want to know why you think the country's so messed up. It's not like we're the Soviet Union circa 1988.

"Thoughtpolice" - you are off message again.  Please revert back to arguing that no conservative policies have been implemented.  Otherwise you risk being called a blabbering idiot by IP.  Remember: if things are bad it is because conservative policies have never really been tried.  This distinction is crucial to the continued survival of the conservative cause.

btw - I *love* the idea that the President in office is never actually responsible for what happens when he is in office - that it is the last president's fault.  That is great, great stuff.  The only reason Clinton had any success is because of Bush, Sr. and the only reason Bush Jr. has had any problems is because of Clinton.  Brilliant!

Boon, you're definitively a troll now.

I'd like to see you actually try to refute some points, instead of just resorting to mockery and name-calling. Please - challenge my views, post some counterexamples, do something that requires brain cells.

Count the number of state agencies there are in Alaska, that is precisely the number of state agencies that Gov. Palin has managed ABOVE those managed by Biden and Obama combined.  County the number of dollars in the Alaska state budget, that's the exact number of dollars MORE that Palin has managed than Biden & Obama combined.  Palin managed more people as mayor of Wasilla than Obama and Biden ever had.  She negotiated an economic deal with Canada.  How many foreign deals have Obama and Biden negotiated?  None.  Reading reports and jawboning it up on the floor of the Senate doesn't count as foreign policy experience either.  Biden is qualified to write for Foreign Policy, to be sure.

And, she's bucked her own party and punked her own party's chairman and ran out her own party's govenror in a primary.  What has Obama done to clean up Illinois?  Has he done anything but enable Blagojevich?  His political mentor just installed his son into his Senate seat passing the office down like a heriditary title.  Narry a peep.  Todd Stroger?  He helped him out too.  Illinois is the most corrupt state in the union... at least Palin has been fighting corruption in her own state.

Now THAT'S change you can believe in.

So you want to talk about experience, fine.  I want to talk about Rezko.  I want to talk about Ayers.  When you people start getting squirmy about Obama running with admitted terrorists, we'll talk.

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j
Part-Time Pundit

Someone else posted it above, but... Obama isn't the one (obviously) who started the slams on (lack of) experience.

What this pick does it make it so that McCain can't really harp on that anymore.  If you're really a McCain supporter, presumably you never thought he needed to do that anyway, and this isn't necessarily saying Palin is a bad choice.  But it does remove that from argument, which might clear the air for some more interesting issues, like, oh, their plans.

BBC is covering it as I speak, and yes, they are going for the "trying to get the Hillary supporters" angle. Such as it is.

If you want to see what treaties the US has with Japan and Russia over Alaskan waters, just google them. They'll come right up. Those are the ones that Palin has helped manage as governor.

Boon, you really are just a rabid troll.

"nobody from nowhere who's never done anything"

This is you more than any other person on this blog.

Wiki it.......now let it sink in......wow, doesn't that suck.  Should have gone with Richardson.  We told ya... but you still aren't listening.

Does anyone have any idea what Glock is talking about?  I'll call it a BUI - blogging under the influence.  Should be illegal.

If you want to see what treaties the US has with Japan and Russia over Alaskan waters, just google them. They'll come right up. Those are the ones that Palin has helped manage as governor.

Whoops.  Silly me!  I thought you actually had like seen an article or something in which she had dealt with the Russians and Japanese over international territories.  Now I can see that you're just saying that Alaskan waters are under treaty with those countries and she might (or might not) have had to handle that at some point in some way.  Got it.

... Boon, you really are just a rabid troll. ... "nobody from nowhere who's never done anything" ... This is you more than any other person on this blog.

Yes, I am the troll.  The troll who makes stuff up repeatedly and then attacks other people personally when I get called out on it.  Can anyone say projection?

Do you have like a picture of Palin meeting with at Japanese or Russian sailor guy?  'Cause that would really help me to better understand what you mean by "deal" with "the Russians and Japanese".  Pictures maybe?  Oh, forget it.

From Gov. Palin's speech today:

I was just your average "hockey mom" in Alaska. We were busy raising our kids. I was serving as the team mom and coaching some basketball on the side. I got involved in the PTA and then was elected to the City Council and then elected mayor of my hometown, where my agenda was to stop wasteful spending and cut property taxes and put the people first.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that this is the first time a VP nominee has mentioned his/her involvement in the PTA and City Council when being introduced to the American people.  And that agenda to stop wasteful spending in the town of ... 8900 people.  What an accomplishment!  I imagine they skipped replacing a stop sign or two for a couple of years.  Must have been tough balancing those books with a whole $5.8 million to sort out.

Alright, I'll stop.  But this is really just priceless.  You guys are going to get your asses handed to you on this one, for sure.

PTA and City Council.  Priceless!

 So far the biggest panic seems to be coming from concern trolls who have recently joined several on-line forums to voice their concern as life long republicans who can no longer vote McCain.  I have yet to see a forum regular on the con blogs, irc channels, etc do anything close to panic.  Noting their approval outright or noting their general approval though they would have preferred so-n-so seems to be the norm.  Personally I think it go either way helping or hurting McCain depending on how it plays out to the non-ideological undecided folks left out there.  There's good arguments for both possibilities.

For what it's worth I noticed plenty of concrn trolls on DailyKos and other on-line political forums pop up after the Biden pick as well.  Somehow I doubt Obama supporters were panic-prone over it... even if it gave McCain supporters a new line of lampooning his new king of politics routine.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

Heh... speaking of, thanks for your concern "Friend of Republicans." 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

Uh oh.  More bad news for Republicans:

The historic speech by the first African-American presidential nominee of a major political party reached 38.4 million viewers on 10 broadcast and cable networks, Nielsen Media Research said Friday. PBS estimated that an additional 3.5 million had watched its prime-time coverage.

The ratings dwarfed the audience for the Summer Olympics and the season finale of “American Idol” in May, and added to what was already a sense of buoyancy within the Obama campaign that the night had gone better than planned. ...

The four-night convention was the most-watched since 1960, when Nielsen began measuring the events. The 10 p.m. hour, Eastern time, from Monday to Thursday was viewed by an average of 22.4 million households, Nielsen said, surpassing by half a million the Republican convention of 1976, previously top-rated.

Well, I am sure the Republican convention will do just as well, especially now that the former Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska is on board.

Goodnight, Irene.

So far the biggest panic seems to be coming from concern trolls who have recently joined several on-line forums to voice their concern as life long republicans who can no longer vote McCain.

Well, you go ahead and tell yourself what you need to tell yourself for now, Glock. You'll catch up with the rest of us later.

And I think the Republican convention will be a ratings smash. Old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man -- what's not to love? Television gold, I tell you. Of *course* the GOP ratings will be at least as good.

Actually, I'm very tempted to watch McCain's gladatorial combat with his teleprompter. It's more television gold -- comedy, drama, and thriller all rolled into one. Will the teleprompter win? Will McCain use the word "nucular"? Will McCain do that same imitation of a lawn sprinkler, with his head going click-click-click-click back and forth as he goes robotically from one teleprompter screen to the next? Will the background be flourescent green again? Man, can't wait!

The comparison was on experience...

Right.  Obama has the experience of having led one of the most innovative and dramatically successful campaigns for the Presidency in American history.  Dan Quayle had the experience of being picked by a committee because he was cute and they thought he would appeal to women (true story). 

Hillary Clinton put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling by running a historic campaign and getting lots and lots of people to vote for her.  Palin was just plucked out of nowhere and placed on the national stage.

Obama and Clinton have earned their spot in history.  For Quayle and Palin it was a lucky break.

I know nothing I can say will convince you that Obama has ever done anything of any significance.  I get that.  The first African-American to make his way to lead a national party.  Four years in the Senate.  Another decade in Springfield.  The academic credentials, the street organizing.  He's done nothing in your eyes.  He might as well have been Mayor of a small town, or someone incapable of spelling potato.  Fair enough, I won't try anymore.

Cheers!

Winning votes is not relevant experience at all.  The suggestion is absolutely absurd.  You're practically equating popularity with experience by doing so.  Defying all logic to avoid that yes, yes indeed, Obama has less experience to be president than even Dan Quayle did as a VP nominee.

If that's the best defense you got is he won a primary (barely)... wow. 

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Glock21 Op/Ed

So how long Obama has ran state government?

How long was Obama been Commander of the National Guard?

Did Obama win his race for State senate or did he knock his opponent off the Ballot with a challenge?

When he ran for US senate did he run against the Republican who won its primary or did they bring in someone from Maryland?

I guess the only real test he has had is his race against Hillary which he only barely won and almost went into extra innings. 

He was a community organizer, a state senator were he voted present a lot instead of taking a stand, a real sign of hope and change. He is now in the senate were he almost immediately started running for President.

He has almost no foreign policy experience.

So really who is the least experience Obama or Palin? So who is the real unknown with little experience that is actually closer to being president? So by your standard it’s better to vote for McCain for more experience.

As far as a pick for McCain, Palin has took on the republicans in Alaska she has been independent. She has fought corruption and been a maverick and a good pick. So McCain has picked someone like him. The only interesting thing is she is a part of the MSM.

 Anon... I'm trying to reason.  For example, Obama only represented part of Chicago... not the whole city by a long shot.  Legislators aren't necessarily leadership/management positions.  Obama has never been a legislator long enough in either of his offices to gain seniority to chair a committee or actually show leadership credentials even in a narrative.  We all know he is no maverick on the issues.  Factcheck.org notes he pretty well votes the party line on everything.  Far more than McCain.  Most of his padded resume is based on other leadership in those legislative bodies throwing him bones to help his career.

Here's the way I see the situation on the Obama/Palin/Quayle situation:

Obama has decent legislative experience... but still not as good as Quayle since it's lopsided to the less substantial legislative body for Obama.  Not great as he hasn't been around long enough or done anything bold enough to claim any leadership from it... especially as it applies to jumping to a leadership position of the presidency.

While Palin's managment/executive positions most certainly dealt with fewer people, they were leadership positions.  Something totally lacking on Obama's record.  Biden has some leadership experience without the executive experience as he's been in the Senate long enough to hold some power in committees and within the legislative body generally.

They're all too inexperienced imo.  But if the choice is between an inexperienced President, or an inexperienced VP who will only be President in emergencies... the choice is pretty obvious from the experience angle.

As far as issue positions I certainly share some of your complaints on Palin, but generally agree with her more on other issues.  Ideologically she's more on par with McCain, though a bit more extreme.  If you already disagree with McCain, you'll certainly disagree with her too.  So as an ideological voter it's unlikely either of us will switch.  But to undecided non-ideological voters who have experience as an important factor, it's a real problem for Obama... though Palin doesn't help McCain there, it certainly doesn't help Obama.  That's my reasoning.  (and sorry for the quick-n-dirty chart).

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Glock21 Op/Ed

champaign resident... first off, the issues with Stevens and the corruption charges came up later.  While it's ironic that the man once supported her... the fact that she will go after her own party members for corruption, even ones that endorsed her, is a sure sign she's anti-cronyism.   And while you criticize her for simply being a mayor of a small town, when compared to be a legislator of a small chunk of Chicago who votes 'present' a lot, it's obvious which one actually involves some executive and managment experience... and which one doesn't.  And while you cherry pick the small town, you leave out that she's been Governor of Alaska for as long as he's been Senator (and not campaigning for President instead of his job) and has 80+% approval rating where she's notorious for cleaning house and bringing actual change.

Obama talks about change, some people bring it.  BTW, Obama's not running against her, or some ghost Bush... he's running against McCain, as much as he has to pretend otherwise to come off as a realistic candidate.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

It will be an interesting election Obama is the most liberal US senator in the United State Senate and Biden is the third most Liberal senator. Hillary maybe the only one in the car who has been involved in doing anything remotely conservative Welfare reform.

McCain is somewhat Conservative and Palin is a Conservative.

So the American voter has a choice between a very liberal Democratic ticket and a republican balanced Conservative ticket. I don't think the voters are going to choose that liberal of an administration. 

The car is really cool, funny though Obama and Biden didn't look like that after McCains pick came out they kind of looked like those presidents on those dollar bills they were talking about, alittle green. 

"Charming how Dan Fielding in this thread tried to spin Palin as a reformer who 'went up against' corrupt senator Ted Stevens.  Mr Fielding didn't mention however, this video endorsment Palin recieved from Stevens, standing at his side with a huge grin.  Whoops."

The fact she still went up against him, and he is likely to lose in November because of it, speaks volumes.  Whoops indeed.

akibare... I think the only former Hillary supporters she might help attract were some of the ones already considering a McCain vote anyways.  Reagan democrats and conservative/moderate/hawkish democrats.  While I doubt he'll get all of the ones recently polled since there's obviously a reason they were considering Hillary first... and some of those difference will lead them to stay home or stay with their party.  And for the most part I think it'll help those on the fence between those options... McCain or staying home... give the ticket a second look, and perhaps find it a reasonable compromise.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

 "Most common definitions of terrorism include only those acts which are intended to create fear (terror), are perpetrated for an ideological goal"

I guess that is the trap that the McCain campaign is talking about when it talks about the Obama supporters attacking Palin’s experience. The truth is you can't tell me what real experience Obama has to be President. Obama hasn't even been in his US senate more then 4 years yet, he was only there 2 years when he started running for President. So replace Obama's name in every sentence were you put Palin’s and then think about whether the voters will want to vote for someone for President with less experience then Palin even has as you see it.

I have no problem with her she has taken on big things and proven herself to not be afraid to stand up to a challenge even when that fight is to fight corruption in her own party. Our party was embarrassed by the “Bridge to no where” to find out she fought it and got it stopped makes me really grateful to have her on the ticket and send her to Washington to see some real change.

I didn't post it as a Andrew Sullivan Poll say it's a Rasmussen poll rather then the Atlantic.

Zogby is a real poll also and I will link to it rather then Mad Magazine.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews1547.html

The latest nationwide survey, begun Friday afternoon after the McCain announcement of Palin as running mate and completed mid-afternoon today, shows McCain/Palin at 47%, compared to 45% support for Obama/Biden.

Looks like McCain is ahead 47% to Obama’s 45% this is after the Democratic Convention when there should be a 6 to 10 point bounce for the democratic ticket.

"I didn't post it as a Andrew Sullivan Poll say it's a Rasmussen poll rather then the Atlantic."

No one posted it as an Andrew Sullivan poll or an Atlantic poll.  They posted it as reporting from Andrew Sullivan in the Atlantic.  It's obvious you never bothered to take even the briefest of peeks at the article before reacting inaccurately.

As for the Zozby "interactive online flash" poll, it seems to be an outlier.  Gallup, for example, has Obama up by eight points in their 3-day tracking poll which ended Friday night, after the Palin announcement.  We should have their Saturday numbers later this morning.

Actually Kevin, the number of times we responded in kind (or even over-whelmingly) was minute compared to being fired at EVERY DAY. Our rules of engagement allowed the Iraqis to shoot at us but didn't allow us to respond in a majority of situations. Rumsfeld quoted a 10 to 1 ratio for the number of attacks compared to the number of times we responded. I actually believe it was a much higher ratio, probably at least 30 to 1, based on the fact that during the 5 trips I had to OSW we only fired back about once a month. Here's a nice historical article about it with the Rumsfeld quote.

Either way, it doesn't change the fact that the Iraqis were the aggressors and were in violation of the 1991 cease fire agreements.

Kevin,

I think you're dead wrong, so we're just going to have to agree to disagree. Nothing that we discuss now is going to change the fact that it happened or how.

No-Kevin and others you will just have to be wrong again. The Iraq's ignored the resolutions and threw the inspectors out constantly and shot at our planes constantly. We had to go after any threat anywere and Iraq was a threat, Terrorist know no single counrty.

Then why wait 10 years to do it?  It's funny watching revisionist history in action, trying to justify the unjustifiable.  Why to you hate America so much?

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At some point we have to trust the government. - redstatewannabe on 2008-06-12 at 1:14pm

"It's a headfake, McCain will pick Romney at the Convention."

Right, and lose half the Republicans.

 The Zogby poll being pointed out certainly seems way off.  The Rasmussen and Gallup tracking polls are showing a far less dramatic dip in the convention bounce... 1 to 2 points so far... with strong support for Palin by the GOP and unaffiliated voters.  The undecided figures cited above seem a bit dismal right now, but with a lot of room for improvement if the GOP can market her well.  So far the criticisms of Palin still seem to boomerang back up to the top of the dem ticket... right down to 'inexperienced beauty queen' comments that have been all over the interwebs.  But time will tell if the move pays off or backfires.

Any notion of the GOP replacing Palin at the convention by any odd procedure seem pretty doubtful at this point since her strongest support is coming from the base, who according to polls and the sudden turnabout from McCain detractors in the base appear to be overjoyed at the pick.  So if Obama supporters think she dooms the ticket, I guess they're in luck.

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Glock21 Op/Ed

Since the initial press release, retracted, Obama's comments about Palin have been classy and tasteful.  It is unfortunate some of his supporters here have not followed his fine example.

On August 31st, 2008 at 03:02 PM, D. Boon said:  "...very little effect besides rallying the base, who were pretty much going to vote for McCain anyway."

Seems like it's working.  And there's a difference between voting for someone, relunctantly, on one hand; and voting for someone as well as being energized to raise funds, canvass neighborhoods, staff call centers, volunteer time and energy, and all the other get-out-the-vote activities that an energized base can do, on the other.

You know, stuff the Obama campaign's been doing since Day 1.  :-)

HG

Kevin, around the age range of 30-35, the method of learning moves from using memorizing as the means for learning to using experience as the foundation for learning, thus moving to using associations as the learning mechanism. For example, it is much more difficult, though not impossible, for an adult to learn a new language vocabulary by purely rote memorization, but the individual is much more successful if the individual can associate the new vocabulary words with another similar language, catchy means of associating the new word with the English equivalent, etc. Nothing is cut and dried, but how one learns is on a continuum and over time one moves from the rote memorization, alphabet and multiplication tables, to associating.

Pattsi Petrie

Pattsi:  Maybe we just have a semantic problem here, but I think it is a fallacy to assume that there is any memory that is not associative.  So-called "rote" memorization also makes heavy use of associations, even if the objects are only associated with each other in a specific sequence or with a visualization of same.

Anonymous 8:15P--try telling this to a 9 month old child or Piaget.   :-)

Pattsi Petrie

Anon-Sure find the tape that tells half the story every time the inspectors went some were Saddam wasn't expecting them they stopped them you and the liberals in the MSM are the only ones trying to rewrite history. Pretty sad when your ideology drives you to protect a mass murderer like Saddam Hussein all for a political purposes to attack George Bush.

I am going back to the McCain campaign.

HG Brought up the base and how Gov. Palin has energized the GOP base like it hasn’t been energized in years. The article is really pretty good and what I am finding as I talk the Pro-Life, Pro-Gun, Faith and other groups who make up the base. Really though women are really seem to be excited about Gov. Palin because she has done just a wonderful job being who she is a hard working woman and mother. Doing just a fantastic job for her community and her state, not unlike a lot of people I know. I think they would really like to see her win because it shows their abilities and hard work valued right along with theirs. This really at this time in the election can have a heck of an impact on the election. It shows in the Zogby Polls which I know the Dem’s hate because it shows their candidate in big trouble.

HG-You know, stuff the Obama campaign's been doing since Day 1.  :-)  This is also something that is interesting because with the love fest going on in the media and all the Leg’s on the ground for Obama he should be killing McCain but even in the polls the Dem’s like Obama is only a few points ahead. Rasmussen poll shows that McCain’s support by unaffiliated voters has jumped to 64% from 54%. Of course the interesting part of this is that it appears that McCain has improved his position more then Obama did after his own convention.  From Rasmussen---

64% of unaffiliated voters now give positive reviews to McCain, up ten points since naming his running mate.

Today’s numbers show a one-point improvement for McCain, but Obama still leads 47% to 44%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 49%, McCain 46%

They say you shouldn't start drinking til noon now we know why.

... every time the inspectors went some were Saddam wasn't expecting them they stopped them you and the liberals in the MSM are the only ones trying to rewrite history

This argument doesn't make sense.  Why would he stop them, since he didn't have weapons of mass destruction?  If my kids are convinced I bought the Christmas presents early and are tearing through the house looking for them, why would I bother to stop them?  They're never going to find what is not there.

The role of the inspectors is irrelevant, imo.  As was shooting at US aircraft.  The only relevant factor for invading and occupying a sovereign nation in a preventive manner is whether or not that country posed an immediate, direct, and grave threat to our country.  In other words, the only way the invasion could even be close to legal or morally acceptable would be if Iraq could be shown to be planning attacks on America and the only way to stop them was to take over the country.

Now regardless of who is revising history here, I think we can all agree that in retrospect Iraq was not even close to being an immediate threat to America.  There were no nukes, no chemical weapons stocks, no WMD.  There was no legitimate reason to invade and occupy Iraq.  I am sure technical legal arguments can be constructed to show that invading Iraq was perfectly legal and the right thing to do, but when it comes right down to it the invasion and occupation were not necessary to protect America.  That is why history will be very, very unkind to the folks who brought you the invasion of Iraq, and the short-sighted folks who supported that invasion without gathering all the facts.

"I think I am done with this blog for a while."

Best wishes for your endeavors elsewhere.

"Yeah, I changed my mind."

It's OK.  I didn't believe you anyway.

It gets even better, nattering.nabob.

According to the 5:30 news on ABC, apparently everyone in Wasilla, Alaska (population around 8,000), knew that Palin's 17 year-old daughter was 5 months pregnant, but somehow the McCain vetting team didn't find out about this?  I'm more than flabbergasted, but I'm also wondering if this will be indicative of how sloppily McCain will operate his office should he win the election.

Obama has been very classy, insists he will not discuss the topic and states his mother was 18 when she had him (I thought she was 20 when he was born).

What has me even more floored is how nice all the Republicans and conservatives are being about this pregnant, unwed teenager.  I find it hard to believe that if this had happened in one of the Democratic families they wouldn't be braying about how this is indicative of the moral rot of the nation and the Democratic party, in particular.

"I don't see why there's a need to make up stories about her family that sound like the plot of a V.C. Andrews novel."

I quite agree.  Unfortunately, there are very obvious reasons why V.C. Andrews is a best selling author, and for many years now presidential elections have been more about fiction than fact.

I can't believe Kos made up a rumor to attack a 17 year old and a downs child to go after a VP candidate, it's revolting. The fact that democrats are using the story of a 17 year old to try and make points with the voters is really sad. At least Obama has said to leave it alone and shows what he is known for character and hope.

Oh yeah the news is reporting that the McCain Campaign did know the daughter was pregnant and thought that since the young person was going to have the child and the parents were going to be married so he would weather the storm. I guess he didn't think the daughter was going to run the Housing Department of the Federal government so things would be fine.

I think basing whether abstinence works or not on a study of one young couple maybe a very poor study and I would suggest that any outcome that would be observed maybe in error. I think using this as an excuse to attack the daughter is something you will find that voters will get tired of it very quickly.

On September 1st, 2008 at 09:21 PM, D. Boon said:  "...I think this revelation has taken quite a bit of wind out of Palin's sails.  But I am biased.  Do other conservatives agree?  Is this a buzz kill after the euphoria of Friday and Saturday, or is this no big deal and you are still super excited about Palin?" and "I'd love to hear what Republicans think."

Redstate.com quotes a posting at CBNnews.com that includes a statement from Dr. Richard Land, President of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission; given his standing and position, I would take his statement to be, at the least, how many social conservative leaders are going to react.  From my initial read and personal background, I would guess there are as many social conservatives "happy" with this story as there are social conservatives "unhappy" with this story.  That effectively means the story is a wash, from the perspective of winning/losing votes.

The hat-tip that was included in the Redstate.com posting goes to Allahpundit at Hotair.com, and that posting has a number of statements and links looking at this story from a social conservative point of view.  It also includes a link from the NY Post and from ABC News indicating that McCain knew of the pregnancy prior to his selection of Palin; personally, I've never bought into the idea that McCain or the people involved with vetting various Vice Presidential candidates didn't know about the pregnancy.  I don't think you get this far into a Presidential campaign and not know practically everything about a possible VP candidate and their family.  As a comparison, I would be completely amazed to learn that Obama's vetting personnel didn't at least get a whiff of John Edwards' affair (prior to the Enquirer articles), thus making him politically ineligible for VP consideration.

(I don't mean this posting as a defense or attack on McCain's choice of Palin, simply to provide some information; my mind isn't made up yet.)

HG

Obama's statement did epitomize class and grace.

Wow. 

I'm glad I was out in the middle of nowhere for four days.

Gallup poll: "Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 30 through Sept. 1 finds Barack Obama leading the race for president with his highest share of support to date." The pollster goes on to say that this is only one point shy of Obama's biggest lead in the campaign, late July on the heels of a very successful tour of Europe and the Mideast.

Thanks again, John McCain, for your splendid splendid pick. Nice to see how it's paying off.

Source.