McCain's supposed to announce today. Who do you think he'll pick? Pawlenty and Romney are apparently out, and I've heard speculation about Ridge and Palin.
Update: Sarah Palin will be the first female GOP VP nominee in history.
McCain's supposed to announce today. Who do you think he'll pick? Pawlenty and Romney are apparently out, and I've heard speculation about Ridge and Palin.
Update: Sarah Palin will be the first female GOP VP nominee in history.
NBC just said Palin. Nothing like being forced to throw a Hail Mary pass before you even get to your convention.
From Jonah Goldberg at the Corner at NRO,re Palin:
that downside is big, but she would be a bold choice.
Maybe she'll clean up the federal GOP like she did Alaska's. It's nice to see a "whistle blower" make it this far. She will certainly "shore up" the ticket.
Larry Kudlow says:
Great, McCain is going for the Captain Caveman/Charlies Angels look. All he needs is an attractive female apppointee for Sec of State, or will he just keep Condoleeza?
I see an SNL skit where Biden tries to "mash" with Palin during a debate.
I think that McCain knows he is toast,,,,and is doing the right and noble thing,,,he is putting a bright, young female hard charger in a position to make a move in four years or maybe eight.
From the comments so far if it's Palin the GOP will like her and the DNC won't, must be a good pick.
McCain sure is sucking the air out of Colorado.
Her husband is an oil man. This is a good thing because the oil industry has been so terribly underrepresented lately, what with their record profits and all.
Wasn't expecting Palin at all. Talk about a curve ball. Personally I was leaning more for Ridge as a total national security ticket. McCain is apparently going the political/pander route... but it may be a genius move given the response.
Right now I see the news and web flooding with Democrats talking about thin resume, inexperience, Dan Quayle, etc. Some of which, if the Obama campaign isn't careful will become a McCain ad against their own top of the ticket.
Afterall who would you rather have? Quayle/Biden or McCain/Quayle... this is going to get interesting.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Lots of people in the current executive branch of government have oil industry backgrounds, Bush, Chaney, Rice etc. They are all leaving in a few months, hopefully not back to the oil industry.
I'm sorry this stops Pawlenty in his tracks, but I've been a Palin fan since 2004, and this is the boldest thing McCain could've done.
Just been listening to her on the radio,,,,,,,they should switch the ticket and put McCain as the V-P>
McCain is really surprising; his campaign staff is kicking Obama's staff's butt. Palin is the only one in the race with Executive experience a great pick for the base of the GOP on all sides and can go after Obama on corruption. This will be a real interesting race.
No telling how this turns out, but Obama's gotta be freaking out today.
"No telling how this turns out, but Obama's gotta be freaking out today."
Because McCain picked a hard-right pro-lifer tied to the oil industry? Not much to freak out about there; McCain is continuing to do everything he can to de-maverick-ize himself in the eyes of the GOP, which in turn takes him away from the moderate independent voter.
It's not as suicidal a move as Lieberman would have been, but does anybody really expect her to come out on top of, say, a foreign policy debate with Joe Biden?
If McCain wins by three electoral votes, and they're Alaska's three electoral votes, then I'll admit that it was a brilliant choice. Otherwise, I think it's going to get pretty clear pretty quick that she's just going to talk the same talk as the old men of the GOP.
The Suntimes just cracked me up,,story line,,,"Brillant pick,,or another Dan Quayle in a dress" Funny stuff :)
She seems like an OK choice to me, but then again, I'm an Obama supporter so it's not like I'd be voting for her anyhow.
Otherwise, I think it's going to get pretty clear pretty quick that she's just going to talk the same talk as the old men of the GOP.
In case you missed it, she ran against an old man of the GOP in a primary for Gov.
but does anybody really expect her to come out on top of, say, a foreign policy debate with Joe Biden?
She doesn't need to do so - that is McCain's baby. She just needs to be competent.
By the way, here's something to think about from the National Review:
Well, country first I guess. Picking a first-term governor with less than two years in office from one of the smallest (population) states in the union. No foreign policy experience. No national leadership experience. Golly, do you think she's "Ready to Lead"?
And McCain will be tied with the Gipper as the oldest president ever sworn in if he wins. We all remember how Ronnie struggled those last few years.
I wish I could say I was surprised that a man of McCain's so-called integrity would use the VP slot to just play political gamesmanship. Unfortunately, it is not surprising any more. He has obviously turned his campaign over to Schmidt and the rest of the right-wing politicos. If I had much respect left for the man, I think I just lost it.
It makes Biden look like that much more of a strong, sober pick.
Goodnight, Irene.
"Tokenism. Can anyone say with a straight face that Palin would have gotten picked if she were a man?"
Yes. She went up against the triumvirate of Frank Murkowski, Ted Stevens, and Don Young, and she won.
Career reformer.
"No foreign policy experience. No national leadership experience."
And a heartbeat away from the presidency!!! How could they have nominated Obama? Silly DNC. Wait... who are we talking about again?
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Glock21 Op/Ed
"but does anybody really expect her to come out on top of, say, a foreign policy debate with Joe Biden?"
This will absolutely be the easiest job of the campaign. Biden voted against the first gulf war, voted for the second one, voted against the surge, said the only solution would be to partition Iraq. Biden has a ton of foreign policy "experience". Most of it demonstrates his total lack of judgement.
"Her husband is an oil man."
"Because McCain picked a hard-right pro-lifer tied to the oil industry?"
Her husband was/is a commerical fisherman and was/is a union steelworker. I'm not saying the oil thing is wrong, I just haven't seen this in any of the media accounts.
FWIW I'm guessing that her career contributions from ExxonMobil pale in comparison to Obama's
Palin comes to the ticket as an exciting choice and, yes, as Governor of Alaska she has plenty of experience dealing the operating end of oil/gas/fishing treaties with Japan and Russia. She'd been part of the interviewing process since early summer. Nobody should have been surprised, especially with other women like Kay Bailey Hutchison and Meg Whitman on the short list.
Governor Palin will be an effective, formidable candidiate.
McCain certainly has had substantial discussions with her the past months.
Michael Fuerst
"Her husband was/is a commerical fisherman and was/is a union steelworker. I'm not saying the oil thing is wrong, I just haven't seen this in any of the media accounts."
Palin's husband also works for BP.
"FWIW I'm guessing that her career contributions from ExxonMobil pale in comparison to Obama's"
I'm sure this is true, because up to now Palin's total campaign contributions must have been about $49.95. However, I'm sure she can tap McCain's $1.3 million and counting from the oil industry, compared to Obama's $400k.
"as Governor of Alaska she has plenty of experience dealing the operating end of oil/gas/fishing treaties with Japan and Russia."
Plenty of experience in less than two years? And how do you know she has any experience negotiating such treaties with Japan and Russia?
And to say debating Joe Biden on foreign policy will be the easiest part of the campaign for her is just crazy talk.
Having said that, she is an interesting woman and an interesting choice, but the GOP hailing of this choice feels just about as contrived as the exuberant reaction to the Biden choice.
Biden was widely anticipated. Palin? Not much time to contrive.
DBoon -Anon--Well, country first I guess. Picking a first-term governor with less than two years in office from one of the smallest (population) states in the union. No foreign policy experience. No national leadership experience. Golly, do you think she's "Ready to Lead"?
As others have said--I think Obama may want to leave this alone since he is a first term U. S. Senator who as State Senator voted present more then he showed up for his first term as a U. S. Senator. Palin has run and won a few offices and actually has some Executive experience throwing out bums like Obama's friends Rezko and Blago. Your right about debating Biden but she only has to do fine, McCain will be the President and he is the expert and isn't dead yet.
but the GOP hailing of this choice feels just about as contrived as the exuberant reaction to the Biden choice.
Let me speak for many conservatives by saying that we are happy that McCain has chosen one of us. Not Lieberman, not Ridge. Pawlenty seemed ok, but not exciting.
McCain the Mav makes us nervous - this pick gives us some hope that he won't leave us completely.
Picture either one of these scenarios:
Obama is elected and some wacko racist guns him down. McCain is elected and drops dead from a stroke or heart attack.
Who do you want facing down Vladimir Putin, Biden or Palin?
The race is over. McCain went totally idiotic. Why not Kay Bailey Hutchinson, or Liddy Dole? Or any number of qualified, experienced Republican or "Independent" females. A city council seat for a couple of years, mayor of a town with less than 3,000 people, and becoming governor when all those around her were corrupt and she becomes the only real choice, governor of a small state with no power, for only 2 years.
Let's run Marci Dodds for Lt Gov, watch her lose, run her for Gov when anyone could beat Blago, let her be the Gov in IL for 2 years, and then be Veep? A far better choice, Marci, at least Illinois is a real state, not some wilderness yahoo place with only a few more than zero people living there.
What a joke.
"I think Obama may want to leave this alone..."
But I think you have things backwards -- Obama will be more than happy to drop the inexperience debate. McCain gave up his advantage when he selected Sarah Palin.
"Palin has run and won a few offices..."
Not a few -- two. She was mayor of an 8,500-person small Alaskan town (think Tuscola times 2.) And she was elected governor in a "anybody but Murkowski" race in which even Ted Stevens and his son couldn't help their buddy Frank.
And now she's dealing with her own ethics investigation -- seems she fired the guy who wouldn't fire her state trooper ex-brother-in-law over some nasty marital stuff. Sources abound.
A far better choice, Marci, at least Illinois is a real state, not some wilderness yahoo place with only a few more than zero people living there.
What a joke.
Spoken by a no-doubt compassionate, non-judgemental, liberal, Obama supporter. Thank you.
I was just thinking that Marci would be a huge improvement over Blago.
And oh great, it looks like she's a creationist, too. *sigh*
Obama's wishful thinkers here learned all they know about Alaskan government from Talking Points Memo today.
Spoken by a no-doubt compassionate, non-judgemental, liberal, Obama supporter. Thank you.
No, spoken by a rock-ribbed Republican who worked the streets getting out the vote in 1968 and ever since. One who is saddened by McCain, his policies, his shortcomings, and now his choice for VP.
Thank you for your assumptions.
"A far better choice, Marci, at least Illinois is a real state, not some wilderness yahoo place with only a few more than zero people living there."
RSWB, even I am walking away from this one, and Marci is a very good friend...
I think McCain will have to address the criticism that this was largely a ham-handed choice: "Need woman. Hillary supporters undecided. Gender means everything; platform means nothing. Get woman, get Hillary supporters." And why not Hutchinson or Dole? If he's addressing the age issue, isn't he admitting it's an issue?
Dole and Hutchison (not Hutchinson) are two out of one hundred. Not only do they lack executive experience, but they are about as old as McCain. McCain needed a currently serving governor, and Pawlenty and Palin were the only two who made sense.
No, spoken by a rock-ribbed Republican who worked the streets getting out the vote in 1968 and ever since. One who is saddened by McCain, his policies, his shortcomings, and now his choice for VP.
Thank you for your assumptions.
My bad - I was fooled by the "yahoo wilderness place" reference. My apologies.
Everyone has to be from somewhere. Judge Palin by her accomplishments and by her values. Would you have rather had an experienced Senator from the populous NE to be the #2 on the ticket - like Lieberman? As I have already stated, I am just happy to see at least 1 conservative on the ticket.
No, not Lieberman, but the main thing, the only thing (ask Vince Lombardi) is WINNING. What does she do to help WIN? She has conservative values desired by the base, but that's all, and that's not enough.
The party may fall back into "vote for the R because she is an R", but the public won't, and the party doesn't elect presidents, the voting public does. She's cute, she's done some good things in a far off state, but when it gets right down to it, is she comparable to Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, George H.W. Bush, Gerald Ford, or Dick Cheney? I'm not saying Biden is, but step outside the partisan cheerleading for a second, and look carefully at what she brings. A PTA mom who has done well in the last few years, in a state at a time where a "typical hockey mom" (her words) can rise pretty quickly.
We are talking about the Vice President of the United States of America, #2 leader of the free world, #2 leader of the greatest civilization, the greatest country ever to exist (especially today), and I don't want a "typical hockey mom", I want a tough-as-nails hard-bitten experienced person who has been proven in the rough and tumble world. As has been said, "It ain't beanbag".
cheer up and read what the Hard-R's are saying
http://corner.nationalreview.com/
McCain the Mav thinks he can fight for the independents - he needed something to fire up the base. I think Palin does that. As for being tough - well, she is from Alaska.
Plenty of experience in less than two years? And how do you know she has any experience negotiating such treaties with Japan and Russia?
He doesn't. Sometimes facts just appear out of thin air. You get used to it after a while.
I think Obama may want to leave this alone since he is a first term U. S. Senator who ...
I guess I wonder if Obama is ever going to get credit for figuring out how to beat the Clintons. I mean, this is like the Boston Red Sox winning the World Series after being down 3-0 to the Yanks in the ALCS, and having people say the BoSox have no experience with baseball.
Senator Obama is an effective, intelligent leader. I know this because last night he became the nominee of the Democratic Party in 2008 - a year in which everyone assumed that the mighty Clintons would easily prevail. I am excited about the possibility of Obama putting those skills to work repairing this country. Which, might I add, is pretty much trashed thanks to 28 years of conservative economic policies.
If you think Mrs. Palin's "experience" issue even comes close to comparing with Obama's you have sadly misinterpreted the last nine months of American history.
btw - can anyone else hardly wait to compare McCain's teleprompter-challenged-speech next week with what transpired last night in Denver? Talk about a contrast. If I was a pot smoker I'd be playing "take a hit off the bong every time McCain makes awkward smile". And I'd guess I'd be so plastered after ten minutes that the rest of the speech might actually make sense.
Have a great weekend!
Oops - this just in. Apparently besides being mayor of that town, and her non-existent international experience with Japan and Russia, Palin can boast:
Miss Congeniality! Yes! Oh, and she did some really great stuff in high school.
I am sure Putin is shaking in his boots right now.
Picture either one of these scenarios:
Obama is elected and some wacko racist guns him down. McCain is elected and drops dead from a stroke or heart attack.
Who do you want facing down Vladimir Putin, Biden or Palin?
Picture this scenario: Obama becomes president without having ever led as much as a lemonade stand. Or people who have led and accomplished things run the show. I'd rather McCain went with a more experienced candidate myself. But the actual choice is between inexperienced leadership all the time... or some inexperienced leadership if tragedy should strike. If you're truly worried about inexperienced leadership, ask Obama to quit.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Interesting collection of blog posts on Palin here: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/
Which, might I add, is pretty much trashed thanks to 28 years of conservative economic policies.
Uhh, where's the evidence of this? I'm honestly curious - I want to know why you think the country's so messed up. It's not like we're the Soviet Union circa 1988.
Considering the lag that exists between enacting economic policy and seeing the results from that policy, most presidents inherit an economy whose path has already been set by their predecessor. So, the boom during the 90s was due to the work of Republican presidents with a Democratic Congress in the 80s and early 90s, while the current "bust" is the result of the opposite situation. I don't see how you can blame one party or one philosophy for both (and again, I don't know that there's much blame to be had, since I just don't see the problems you're talking about).
I found this "list" of accomplishments. There aren't many/any sources directly cited, but I'm sure you could find them once you knew where to look.
Well, do you think Iran is shaking in their boots? This is from the New Republic, hardly a right wing rag.
"Obama's wishful thinkers here learned all they know about Alaskan government from Talking Points Memo today."
Nice try, but my sister and brother-in-law have lived in Alaska and worked for the federal government for 20+ years. My nephew is a career Army man married to an Alaskan native. I have been hearing about Palin for a long time.
Well -- two years anyway...
"And she was elected governor in a 'anybody but Murkowski' race in which even Ted Stevens and his son couldn't help their buddy Frank."
Palin had a hard primary and a hard general due to the fact she exposed so much corruption in her own party. If you had not heard of her until two years ago, you missed out on a lot of the story.
McCain certainly has had substantial discussions with her the past months.
He's talked with her twice in his life. He doesn't know her. He picked her because she was a woman, and that's it. How sad. McCain isn't a serious person, and neither is anyone who votes for him.
"He's talked with her twice in his life." I believe he's talked to her in person twice in his life, but has had talks with her otherwise on the subject from the coverage I read/heard. This isn't like Cheney where it's some life long crony... this a woman with a record he admired as it matches a great deal of his own philosophy and values and had his people vet her. This all got started in February, so the idea that its some sort of short-sighted slip up or last minute decision is a bit absurd on its face.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Boon.
Your crap gets really tiring.
I did not say she had any experience negotiating treaties and the commentor to whom you responded took my previous statement out of context. If you guys want to argue, at least get it right. I said she had experience on the operating end of treaties - in other words - their nuts and bolts implementation. If you don't think dealing with the Russians and Japanese over fishing and oil and gas rights is significant, well, I suppose that's your right.
I don't think anybody is going to reasonably argue that she does not have a lot of experience, but she's still an exciting candidate and her selection is the nail in the coffin for Obama's campaign of hypocrisy. In fact, if you go through his acceptance speech last night it was simply one empty promise after another (tax relief for those who already don't pay taxes, capital gains tax for small businesses that already don't pay capital gains, not the same old guard while picking a 40 year Senator for a running mate, etc etc etc.). Give me a break.
"He picked her because she was a woman, and that's it."
Then why didn't he pick Olympia Snowe, or Christine Todd Whitman, or Condoleezza Rice? "Alaska" came first in the alphabet?
It couldn't have anything to do with her fiscal policies, especially a near religious opposition to earmarks (sound familiar?), nor could it have anything to do with her corruption busting ways and thwarting her own party in doing the right thing (sound familiar?)... as McCain pointed out numerous times on the campaign trail, he intended to pick someone who matched his own philosophy and politics for the VP. She fits the bill, especially on what she's best known for. She fits his message and his viewpoints and compliments the ticket in other political (and some obvious pandering) ways.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
I saw Senator Dan Rutherford last night at a Black fundraiser. He was the Romney chairman here in Illinois. Romney had a pretty good organization here in Champaign and raised as much money here as Obama. Nationwide his organization was much better than McCain. Most of us that worked on the campaign were bent out of shape by the so called treaty (gentleman's agreement of neutrality). Most of you never heard about this, but most of the Jeb Bush people were working for Romney. The Florida Governor and the Republican Senator (I forget their names) pledged not to support anyone. Rudy realized he was toast in Florida and made a pact with McCain. Rudy essentially threw his support ot McCain and the two neutral pols endorsed McCain at the last minute. McCain, who had been in 13 prior debates with Romney discussing the surge, said that Romney was against it. (a lie) The rest is history and Rudy flew to California with McCain to pick up Arnold's and Mrs Reagan's endorsement. I was amazed that Romney was a gentleman enough to endorse McCain to maintain party unity.
Romney has turned over his $2300 club list to McCain and has been very actively promoting him. Those that want to can go back and read my posts, but I can tell you that the real issue is whether the hard core Romney supporters will contribute the money and time. My first reaction was extreme disappointment. Upon reflection, however, I think you are likely to see McCain explaining who his cabinet will be and what jobs he has in mind for each of them. Huckabee, Romney, Rudy, Ridge, Jeb (don't discount the Catholic hispanic vote), Lieberman and several others. Because the Republicans have a deeper bench, and because Obama cannot trust Clinton, McCain may have made a smart move.
Obama made the speech of his lifetime, and no one can remember anything about it other than the fact he made a great speech in 2002 (Hillary's statement) and now made another great speech in 2008. But who is talking about it with all the buzz about his VP. The 4 pt Obama bounce will be gone in a week. His campaign staff had geared up rapid response to the Romney pick and made Obama look like a fool because he had to retract their silly attack on the VP who has at least 6 years more executive experience that Obama/Biden combined. At least we have one person out of the four that has at least run something other than a kool aide stand when they were a kid. I will reserve judgment on Sarah until I read more about her, but like a lot of people I am starting to like my "second choice".
Nonsense. This is McCain's "Harriet Miers" moment.
nattering.naboob... what does that make the Dem convention? The whole party's "Harriet Miers" moment/year?
What does that mean about the Biden selection? The Cheney moment?
Puh-lease. The more you rip on Palin the more it keeps your own preferred candidate's biggest weakness in the spotlight. I'm all for it, because if Palin isn't ready on day one, Obama sure as heck ain't. Keep bringing it up. Oh, and please keep bringing up Dan Quayle. That's a great one since a quick wiki peak shows Obama doesn't even meet that threshhold. Palin at least has executive and leadership credentials w/ accomplishments. That alone lays Obama to waste. Once again, you guys had Richardson. You threw him back and kept a minnow. This issue is lose-lose for you. Please please please keep running with it. :-)
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Glock21 Op/Ed
That's okay, Glock. It'll probably take a day or so before the wisdom of what I said will start to truly sink in. After all, loyal GOP spent the first day or so telling everyone what a terrific choice Miers was too. Then came the hangover.
Do I understand correctly that Palin has a baby with Downs syndrome less than 6 months old? If true, then McCain has essentially given up the race. There is no way that a mother with a baby that young, particularly one with special needs would have the time to spend on the campaign trail in the next two months.
That's okay, Glock. It'll probably take a day or so before the wisdom of what I said will start to truly sink in.
Oh, I don't know. It took years for anyone around here to acknowledge that things were going swimmingly in Iraq. They'll figure out what kind of mistake this was on November 5th.
What I find interesting is the palatable defensiveness of these comments. Man, are you folks on edge. Someone please scream at us one more time about how great this nobody from nowhere who's never done anything actually is. Oh, and if we could get another repeat of the "lemonade stand" line I think that would help.
Again, even if Obama loses the election historians (conservative and otherwise) will look at his primary campaign as brilliant and historic. Not only because he crafted a careful message that made a black man acceptable to a majority of primary voters, but also because he dismantled the Clinton legacy and power grip in the DNC. I think Roger Simon at Politico has already started to corner the market on telling that story, but it is a significant story to tell, for sure.
So to say that Obama doesn't have as much experience as Palin is pretty ridiculous. Not that actual truth has anything to do with it. After all, the same people who are claiming Obama has no experience (hasn't run a lemonade stand) are claiming that winning some little GOP in-fight in Alaska is sufficient experience to be second in line to the most powerful political position on planet Earth.
But, as always, hypocrisy is the greatest luxury. Raise the double standard!
I said she had experience on the operating end of treaties - in other words - their nuts and bolts implementation. If you don't think dealing with the Russians and Japanese over fishing and oil and gas rights is significant, well, I suppose that's your right.
So she's had to "deal" with "the Russians and Japanese" over territorial waters? Can you give us an example of these important dealings?
Uhh, where's the evidence of this? I'm honestly curious - I want to know why you think the country's so messed up. It's not like we're the Soviet Union circa 1988.
"Thoughtpolice" - you are off message again. Please revert back to arguing that no conservative policies have been implemented. Otherwise you risk being called a blabbering idiot by IP. Remember: if things are bad it is because conservative policies have never really been tried. This distinction is crucial to the continued survival of the conservative cause.
btw - I *love* the idea that the President in office is never actually responsible for what happens when he is in office - that it is the last president's fault. That is great, great stuff. The only reason Clinton had any success is because of Bush, Sr. and the only reason Bush Jr. has had any problems is because of Clinton. Brilliant!
nabob, you can certainly make arguments about this choice, but it doesn't even come close to the Miers pick. That was almost universally panned by Republicans whereas this pick is almost universally lauded, especially after her debut. Compare that to the Biden debut.
Boon, you're definitively a troll now.
I'd like to see you actually try to refute some points, instead of just resorting to mockery and name-calling. Please - challenge my views, post some counterexamples, do something that requires brain cells.
She homeschools, too.
FWIW, none of the mainstream Japanese news sites have mentioned anything about dealings with her, they are parroting the "McCain apparently picked her to try to get the women who supported Clinton" line. The general 2ch chat has much similar opinions to mainstream US sites (i.e. divided), but again, nothing about fishing. Lots of discussion about the podunk town she was mayor of, that it was podunk.
Such as it is. People on 2ch having a field day with the "former beauty queen" tidbit, but then people on fark were going wild over "VPILF," so I suppose certain... denizens of the net are the same the world over :D
That and random unfounded discussion over whether she'd be in favor of whaling.
Count the number of state agencies there are in Alaska, that is precisely the number of state agencies that Gov. Palin has managed ABOVE those managed by Biden and Obama combined. County the number of dollars in the Alaska state budget, that's the exact number of dollars MORE that Palin has managed than Biden & Obama combined. Palin managed more people as mayor of Wasilla than Obama and Biden ever had. She negotiated an economic deal with Canada. How many foreign deals have Obama and Biden negotiated? None. Reading reports and jawboning it up on the floor of the Senate doesn't count as foreign policy experience either. Biden is qualified to write for Foreign Policy, to be sure.
And, she's bucked her own party and punked her own party's chairman and ran out her own party's govenror in a primary. What has Obama done to clean up Illinois? Has he done anything but enable Blagojevich? His political mentor just installed his son into his Senate seat passing the office down like a heriditary title. Narry a peep. Todd Stroger? He helped him out too. Illinois is the most corrupt state in the union... at least Palin has been fighting corruption in her own state.
Now THAT'S change you can believe in.
So you want to talk about experience, fine. I want to talk about Rezko. I want to talk about Ayers. When you people start getting squirmy about Obama running with admitted terrorists, we'll talk.
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j
Part-Time Pundit
"Someone please scream at us one more time about how great this nobody from nowhere who's never done anything actually is."
As I said, keep up with that line of attack. It only makes your candidate look bad. Palin, as much as you've ignored my criticisms, isn't experienced enough for me. Obama isn't either. But I, like most voters, vote the top of the ticket. So your strawman aside, you're still focusing on an issue that is your candidate's weakest point. As a pragmatist I don't like the Palin pick. From a political pragmatist perspective specificallly though, McCain may be a genius, because you're doing exactly what helps McCain the most by hurting Obama.
And that's after numerous noting of the effect. Lemonade stands or Dan Quayle. It hurts Obama by bringing them up because Obama has never un as much as one, and Obama can't compete with the other. Wiki it....
...now let it sink in...
...wow, doesn't that suck. Should have gone with Richardson. We told ya... but you still aren't listening.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Someone else posted it above, but... Obama isn't the one (obviously) who started the slams on (lack of) experience.
What this pick does it make it so that McCain can't really harp on that anymore. If you're really a McCain supporter, presumably you never thought he needed to do that anyway, and this isn't necessarily saying Palin is a bad choice. But it does remove that from argument, which might clear the air for some more interesting issues, like, oh, their plans.
BBC is covering it as I speak, and yes, they are going for the "trying to get the Hillary supporters" angle. Such as it is.
With this pick the GOP's experience thread is dead. About the only mud the GOP has left to sling is the obvious, the one they've been hesitant to say out loud ,,, did you know that Obama is ,,, BLACK? That's been the real GOP issue all along.
If you want to see what treaties the US has with Japan and Russia over Alaskan waters, just google them. They'll come right up. Those are the ones that Palin has helped manage as governor.
Boon, you really are just a rabid troll.
"nobody from nowhere who's never done anything"
This is you more than any other person on this blog.
http://newsroom.mtv.com/2008/08/29/sarah-palin-republican-vice-presidential-nominee-plugs-romney-paul-but-not-mccain-in-mtv-interview/
Wiki it.......now let it sink in......wow, doesn't that suck. Should have gone with Richardson. We told ya... but you still aren't listening.
Does anyone have any idea what Glock is talking about? I'll call it a BUI - blogging under the influence. Should be illegal.
If you want to see what treaties the US has with Japan and Russia over Alaskan waters, just google them. They'll come right up. Those are the ones that Palin has helped manage as governor.
Whoops. Silly me! I thought you actually had like seen an article or something in which she had dealt with the Russians and Japanese over international territories. Now I can see that you're just saying that Alaskan waters are under treaty with those countries and she might (or might not) have had to handle that at some point in some way. Got it.
... Boon, you really are just a rabid troll. ... "nobody from nowhere who's never done anything" ... This is you more than any other person on this blog.
Yes, I am the troll. The troll who makes stuff up repeatedly and then attacks other people personally when I get called out on it. Can anyone say projection?
Do you have like a picture of Palin meeting with at Japanese or Russian sailor guy? 'Cause that would really help me to better understand what you mean by "deal" with "the Russians and Japanese". Pictures maybe? Oh, forget it.
From Gov. Palin's speech today:
I am going to go out on a limb here and say that this is the first time a VP nominee has mentioned his/her involvement in the PTA and City Council when being introduced to the American people. And that agenda to stop wasteful spending in the town of ... 8900 people. What an accomplishment! I imagine they skipped replacing a stop sign or two for a couple of years. Must have been tough balancing those books with a whole $5.8 million to sort out.
Alright, I'll stop. But this is really just priceless. You guys are going to get your asses handed to you on this one, for sure.
PTA and City Council. Priceless!
Do you have like a picture of Palin meeting with at Japanese or Russian sailor guy? 'Cause that would really help me to better understand what you mean by "deal" with "the Russians and Japanese". Pictures maybe? Oh, forget it.
Here's what prairie biker said:
dealing the operating end
Either you lack basic reading comprehension or you're purposefully creating a strawman.
And that's after numerous noting of the effect. Lemonade stands or Dan Quayle. It hurts Obama by bringing them up because Obama has never un as much as one, and Obama can't compete with the other. Wiki it....
I'm really surprised that you would stoop to comparing Obama to Dan Quayle. I'm used to you supporting your perspective with deep analysis and evidence. If Glock is forced to ridiculous comparisons and phantom references to executive experience, then that's a compelling suggestion that there's really nothing to support this pick.
Obama: Dan Quayle as McCain: David Duke
"I'm really surprised that you would stoop to comparing Obama to Dan Quayle. I'm used to you supporting your perspective with deep analysis and evidence."
Yeah, stooping to the level of his on VP. Shame on me.
Sincce you're too busy deflecting, here's what any voter can learn by a quick look at wiki or any other source: Dan Quayle had some military record through the National Guard, with some promotions. Not much, but more than Obama had. Dan Quayle had more legislative exprerience with his House years and Senate years. Like Obama, Dan Quayle used JFK comparisons to justify his lack of inexperience. It fell flat for both as it would be a compliment if others argue it, but arrogant to try to claim the mantle of someone held in such high esteem by the public (generally) who had both a stronger military narrative and more years of political experience too. Feel free to wiki that one as well.
That said, Palin is too inexperienced, imo. But Obama and his campaign jumping all over that with dire warnings that she might become presiden is laughable as his own inexperience does put him in league with Dan Quayle... except unlike Palin or Quayle, he's the nominee for President, not VP. As I said before. If you're really worried about an inexperienced yahoo being a heart beat away from the president, ask Obama to stop running.
"With this pick the GOP's experience thread is dead."
Talk about wishful thinking. I suppose Obama's pick of Biden killed the 'who's really bringing change to washington' thread, too? The fact is the dems are running a bottom heavy ticket like Bush did with their hypocritical pick. McCain is running a top heavy ticket with his hypocritical pick. And while the gop has two fallback excuses for their vp pick (McCain's exprience at the top of the ticket and Palin's executive experience, while minimal, still is more than Obama's with an actual leadership narrative and strong accomplishments)... the DNC has little excuse for Obama other than pulling out the Quayle argument with JFK comparisons. But America knew Jack Kennedy, and Obama, sir, is no Jack Kennedy. ;-)
But surely this is just another 'drunken rant' or something, so feel free to dismiss it as a BUI, or dismiss it out of hand as absurd, even though the experience records are just a quick google/wiki/etc away. Personally I think the denial is absurd. And frustrated late night posts aside, I think I've pointed out why pretty clearly.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
You can just hear the panic.
The sound of tons of Republicans shouting "Oh, no" as if there were a great disturbance in the Force:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/08/the_palin_puzzle.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
Oh, yeah. Great move, McMaverick.
So far the biggest panic seems to be coming from concern trolls who have recently joined several on-line forums to voice their concern as life long republicans who can no longer vote McCain. I have yet to see a forum regular on the con blogs, irc channels, etc do anything close to panic. Noting their approval outright or noting their general approval though they would have preferred so-n-so seems to be the norm. Personally I think it go either way helping or hurting McCain depending on how it plays out to the non-ideological undecided folks left out there. There's good arguments for both possibilities.
For what it's worth I noticed plenty of concrn trolls on DailyKos and other on-line political forums pop up after the Biden pick as well. Somehow I doubt Obama supporters were panic-prone over it... even if it gave McCain supporters a new line of lampooning his new king of politics routine.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
This is to express my sincere sympathy to my Republican friends in Champaign County. This must have come as a great shock. As the pundits try to explain how wonderful Palins addition to the ticket is I can't help but think what the conversation is back behind the curtain. With so many better choices of seasoned politicians from which to choose McCain went for the former mayor of Tolono x 2. I think McCain threw what chance he had away. Palin comes with so many time bombs the focus will be on her instead of the real issues. In the next few weeks McCain will realize that he should have gotten to know her better. Time to focus on the local races and practice saying President Obama.
What an amazing pick by McCain!! Gov. Palin brings in a distinguished record of executive experience, running a successful and popular Government in Alaska. An ideal ticket is one where 1 person brings in the Washington experience/foreign policy/national security experience and the other brings in executive/administrative experience. This can be seen from all winning tickets in the past few decades. The republican ticket is the perfect ticket now. She has a record of clean governance, bipartisanship and reducing wasteful spending and is an ideal choice for McCain's VP.
For all those who wish to raise the 'experience' question - do you honestly believe that Gov. Palin is too inexperienced to be President (a post for which, btw, she is NOT running for) despite being the Governor of Alaska for nearly 2 years and a mayor for many years before that, while Sen Obama is experienced enough to be President (a post he is running for)? If you honestly believe Palin is inexperienced, there is now way you could support Obama. Palin brings in executive experience, McCain and Biden bring Washington, foreign policy experience - what exactly does Obama bring in? Neither of the 2.
Also, it is incorrect to see the choice of Gov Palin as a gimmick to pander to the women voters. While that is a bonus, the most important point is that she would be an excellent person for the role of VP in McCain's administration, with the executive experience, to help him run the country effectively. None of us know too much about her, but whatever little Ive heard so far is immensely impressive. I request all voters to give her a fair chance, do some research and find out about her, and you will see that her candidacy is no gimmick.
What an amazing pick by McCain!! Gov. Palin brings in a distinguished record of executive experience, running a successful and popular Government in Alaska. An ideal ticket is one where 1 person brings in the Washington experience/foreign policy/national security experience and the other brings in executive/administrative experience. This can be seen from all winning tickets in the past few decades. The republican ticket is the perfect ticket now. She has a record of clean governance, bipartisanship and reducing wasteful spending and is an ideal choice for McCain's VP.
For all those who wish to raise the 'experience' question - do you honestly believe that Gov. Palin is too inexperienced to be President (a post for which, btw, she is NOT running for) despite being the Governor of Alaska for nearly 2 years and a mayor for many years before that, while Sen Obama is experienced enough to be President (a post he is running for)? If you honestly believe Palin is inexperienced, there is now way you could support Obama. Palin brings in executive experience, McCain and Biden bring Washington, foreign policy experience - what exactly does Obama bring in? Neither of the 2.
Also, it is incorrect to see the choice of Gov Palin as a gimmick to pander to the women voters. While that is a bonus, the most important point is that she would be an excellent person for the role of VP in McCain's administration, with the executive experience, to help him run the country effectively. None of us know too much about her, but whatever little Ive heard so far is immensely impressive. I request all voters to give her a fair chance, do some research and find out about her, and you will see that her candidacy is no gimmick.
Heh... speaking of, thanks for your concern "Friend of Republicans."
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Comparing Obama to Quayle is like comparing Hillary Clinton to Palin. The difference in both cases is that the Democrat had millions of votes cast for them for President. And in the case of Obama, he won the most exciting primary in recent history with innovation and brilliant strategies that will be studied and copied for years to come. The Republican in each case arrived on the national executive stage as the result of a political committee who decided they would be the best political choice. They essentially did next to nothing to deserve to be on the national stage. If that difference isn't obvious and stark, then I would suggest partisan blinders are fixed firmly in place.
I guess what I find most disturbing about Palin is not that she is so inexperienced and obviously unprepared for the position. That is bad enough, and brings McCain's judgment (or lack thereof) back to center stage, for me at least. No, what I find most disturbing is the cynicism of the pick. Since it is obvious that the only reason she was picked is because she is a woman, the GOP is basically saying that they believe women will vote for anyone who shares the same gender - regardless of their political position. That women are basically so shallow or so stupid that all they care about is gender.
It is a pretty cynical way to approach nominating the first woman to the GOP national ticket. But, again, it is exactly what we've come to expect from McCain during this campaign, and from the conservatives who have been running this country for the last eight years.
Uh oh. More bad news for Republicans:
Well, I am sure the Republican convention will do just as well, especially now that the former Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska is on board.
Goodnight, Irene.
I was pointing out their experience similarities. What their selection has to do with that isn't really clear. Is this an attempt to argue that running for president is what gives Obama experience enough to be president again? If so, I don't buy that for any candidate. If you're just trying to avoid the argument altogether by changing the subject, that's fine too, but I don't see how that helps your case. The comparison was on experience... obviously not issue positions or which end of the ticket they're on or whether they won a primary or not or whether they're great/suck/make a good cup of tea in China, etc. You can call that 'partisan blinders' if you want, but in this case it seems to be a point on experience and you're pulling out red herrings to avoid talking about that comparison.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
Well, you go ahead and tell yourself what you need to tell yourself for now, Glock. You'll catch up with the rest of us later.
And I think the Republican convention will be a ratings smash. Old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man, another old white man -- what's not to love? Television gold, I tell you. Of *course* the GOP ratings will be at least as good.
Actually, I'm very tempted to watch McCain's gladatorial combat with his teleprompter. It's more television gold -- comedy, drama, and thriller all rolled into one. Will the teleprompter win? Will McCain use the word "nucular"? Will McCain do that same imitation of a lawn sprinkler, with his head going click-click-click-click back and forth as he goes robotically from one teleprompter screen to the next? Will the background be flourescent green again? Man, can't wait!
nattering.nabob... the concern troll comment wasn't directed at you. Sorry if you got that impression. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be 'catching up' to. But okay. And I think the RNC convention is looking to be a total flop and disaster (literally with the hurricane bearing down and the reminders that provokes). Obama's convention was a Clinton love fest, but they ended it on a pretty strong note when most people were watching. So in the end I think it was a plus for him and the Clinton/Obama animosity was put aside for unity as hoped for, at least in the party ranks. I'm sure it helped quite a bit with the genereal voters too.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
The comparison was on experience...
Right. Obama has the experience of having led one of the most innovative and dramatically successful campaigns for the Presidency in American history. Dan Quayle had the experience of being picked by a committee because he was cute and they thought he would appeal to women (true story).
Hillary Clinton put 18 million cracks in the glass ceiling by running a historic campaign and getting lots and lots of people to vote for her. Palin was just plucked out of nowhere and placed on the national stage.
Obama and Clinton have earned their spot in history. For Quayle and Palin it was a lucky break.
I know nothing I can say will convince you that Obama has ever done anything of any significance. I get that. The first African-American to make his way to lead a national party. Four years in the Senate. Another decade in Springfield. The academic credentials, the street organizing. He's done nothing in your eyes. He might as well have been Mayor of a small town, or someone incapable of spelling potato. Fair enough, I won't try anymore.
Cheers!
"viewers" and "believers" are two different things. I watched the speech (knowing McCain's pick in advance - tee hee) and just listened to a whole lot of empty.
boon, quit drinking the cool aid. All you are anymore is a mean little man. Why don't you take a break again and come back in a month or two with a fifth username (or will it be your sixth?). By your own admission you're too immature to handle much of this. Why don't you break the pattern and stay gone this time? Get some counseling while you're away to deal with your aggression issues. It's not that everybody is out to get you. You really do have a very obvious and evident problem. Do something about it, okay? You could take some classes while you're gone, too. That will help with the comprehension issues like you demonstrate above.
To her credit, Palin helped take down one of the deepest dippers into the pork-barrel, Ted Stevens, as well as some of the other trough-feeders there in Alaska. That's pretty significant. What waste and inefficiency did she get rid of? The first thing she did after taking office was get rid of Alaska's gubernatorial jet. And while we talk about experience, let's not forget that until they are sworn in, nobody has any experience being President or VP unless they are an incumbent.
I'm excited about her candidacy. This is really the best thing McCain could have done in order to stay competitive in this race. His timing is impeccable as this announcement took all the bluster out of Obama's speech the night before and gave the country something much better to talk about.
There's not much else to say about it for now, I'll see you guys in November.
boon, lay off the ad homs. Enough is enough. You really need to get a handle on yourself.
Winning votes is not relevant experience at all. The suggestion is absolutely absurd. You're practically equating popularity with experience by doing so. Defying all logic to avoid that yes, yes indeed, Obama has less experience to be president than even Dan Quayle did as a VP nominee.
If that's the best defense you got is he won a primary (barely)... wow.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
That said, Palin is too inexperienced, imo. But Obama and his campaign jumping all over that with dire warnings that she might become presiden is laughable as his own inexperience does put him in league with Dan Quayle... except unlike Palin or Quayle, he's the nominee for President, not VP. As I said before. If you're really worried about an inexperienced yahoo being a heart beat away from the president, ask Obama to stop running.
Being inexperienced is not a binary system--you either are or you aren't. There are rotary clubs bigger than Palin's constituency for most of her "executive experience". I know Boon was just being abrasive, but there are PTAs with larger constituency.
Obama has more votes in any of his elections than Palin has received in her lifetime. She ran a area 1/10 the population of most Chicago wards and then a state with the fourth smallest population in the country.
I give her the benefit of the doubt on the corruption issues, pending further investigation--reformers always get accused by the corrupt as being corrupt. The stuff with her brother-in-law sounds pretty bad--we don't want executives who risk American lives and prosperity over personal vendettas (see Cheney, Dick), but I give her that benefit of the doubt because I understand the political landscape of Alaska, just like you'd have to be completely ignorant about Chicago to fail to understand that it's impossible to do anything on education without running into the Ayers brothers, or working with Tony Rezco. I also give her major props for parenting a child with Down Syndrome. I certainly know that that is a wonderful, challenging life to live.
I do have the following concerns:
1. She doesn't seem interested in the VP except for what it could do for Alaska.
2. I'm worried about her positions on creationism which are not the worst, but are very unclear.
3. Her murky link with Pat Buchanan
4. She's too polar on the idea that Global Warming is not at all manmade.
5. She supported the bridge to nowhere until it became politically unfeasible.
6. Some of her best friends are gay, she just wouldn't want one to marry her daughter.
7. She combines with McCain to form what could be the weakest foreign policy ticket in the history of the union.
This campaign will be a test of the Democratic party's ability to run a campaign. They had the three to four strongest candidates running on their side of the ticket. If they somehow manage to lose this one, they should pack up shop and let the far leftists take over.
Winning votes is not relevant experience at all. The suggestion is absolutely absurd. You're practically equating popularity with experience by doing so.
No, but representing constituents is. Is being CEO of a lemonade stand the same as being President of the United States of America?
I thought you were a man of reason?
boon, lay off the ad homs. Enough is enough. You really need to get a handle on yourself.
:D I'm glad you took the hypocritic oath.
I like Teacher Man. Who's Teacher Man?
Have a good break, PB! Cheers!
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ps - could I humbly suggest that the 9:23 post, filled with personal, mean-spirited attacks against me, be erased? It seems a bit over-the-top, dontcha think?
"Obama has the experience of having led one of the most innovative and dramatically successful campaigns for the Presidency in American history."
Can I interest you in a Karl Rove for President bumper sticker?
This isn't the Soviet Union where the qualification for Chairmanship is your ability to kill the opposition. Although you can be forgiven for forgetting that considering Obama's Soviet style assaults on First Amendment freedoms. Maybe that's why Mr. Judgment took so long to condemn Putin...he was too busy admiring him.
Sorry Boon. No liberals allowed on IP. PB has pronounced it, and so it is so.
So how long Obama has ran state government?
How long was Obama been Commander of the National Guard?
Did Obama win his race for State senate or did he knock his opponent off the Ballot with a challenge?
When he ran for US senate did he run against the Republican who won its primary or did they bring in someone from Maryland?
I guess the only real test he has had is his race against Hillary which he only barely won and almost went into extra innings.
He was a community organizer, a state senator were he voted present a lot instead of taking a stand, a real sign of hope and change. He is now in the senate were he almost immediately started running for President.
He has almost no foreign policy experience.
So really who is the least experience Obama or Palin? So who is the real unknown with little experience that is actually closer to being president? So by your standard it’s better to vote for McCain for more experience.
As far as a pick for McCain, Palin has took on the republicans in Alaska she has been independent. She has fought corruption and been a maverick and a good pick. So McCain has picked someone like him. The only interesting thing is she is a part of the MSM.
Prairie Biker - Managing an existing treaty, sure. No one will argue that.
That's not the same thing as negotiating an international treaty. The treaties are between countries. On the Japanese side, no one talks about the governor of Hokkaido negotiating these things either. Coverage happens on the news of these things (over there, I don't know about here) and it's the cabinet ministers who do it.
If she had been instrumental at all, or heard of at all, on the Japanese side, it would be mentioned as an aside in the coverage over there, and it simply isn't. She is presented as "a brand new name, governor of a small population state."
Not that I think this is some terrible thing, or anything, but saying she has "international experience" on this basis is some SERIOUS resume padding.
Anon... I'm trying to reason. For example, Obama only represented part of Chicago... not the whole city by a long shot. Legislators aren't necessarily leadership/management positions. Obama has never been a legislator long enough in either of his offices to gain seniority to chair a committee or actually show leadership credentials even in a narrative. We all know he is no maverick on the issues. Factcheck.org notes he pretty well votes the party line on everything. Far more than McCain. Most of his padded resume is based on other leadership in those legislative bodies throwing him bones to help his career.
Here's the way I see the situation on the Obama/Palin/Quayle situation:
Obama has decent legislative experience... but still not as good as Quayle since it's lopsided to the less substantial legislative body for Obama. Not great as he hasn't been around long enough or done anything bold enough to claim any leadership from it... especially as it applies to jumping to a leadership position of the presidency.
While Palin's managment/executive positions most certainly dealt with fewer people, they were leadership positions. Something totally lacking on Obama's record. Biden has some leadership experience without the executive experience as he's been in the Senate long enough to hold some power in committees and within the legislative body generally.
They're all too inexperienced imo. But if the choice is between an inexperienced President, or an inexperienced VP who will only be President in emergencies... the choice is pretty obvious from the experience angle.
As far as issue positions I certainly share some of your complaints on Palin, but generally agree with her more on other issues. Ideologically she's more on par with McCain, though a bit more extreme. If you already disagree with McCain, you'll certainly disagree with her too. So as an ideological voter it's unlikely either of us will switch. But to undecided non-ideological voters who have experience as an important factor, it's a real problem for Obama... though Palin doesn't help McCain there, it certainly doesn't help Obama. That's my reasoning. (and sorry for the quick-n-dirty chart).
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Glock21 Op/Ed
That's correct, akibare. However, overseeing day to day implementation is still executive level interaction with foreign entities, even if only to act as a go-between on any level. My point is that saying she has no experience in this area is not entirely correct and doesn't take related issues into account.
The bottom line, however, is that those most inclined to debase her in this regard have no real idea what the day-to-day responsibilities of being Governor of Alaska entail. So, slam away!
ps. boon - you opened up the bag and every time you do I'm going to respond in kind. By the way, that's not an ad hom attack on you above, that's good advice.
PB,
you need to get a check on your temper. You have been found to be wrong several times, despite your screaming tendencies, and you rarely admit it (except when you just can't spin it any further). Quit trying to be such a cyber-bully
What I find most interesting is that Democrats would rather have Biden's demonstrably absurd and unwise foreign policy history vs. Palin's limited to no foreign policy experience. Biden is a fool with extremely poor judgment. Palin doesn't look to be, although I admittedly don't know a whole lot. Of course, we can compare the judgment of Palin vs. Obama. Obama cozied up to some of the sleaziest people in American politics to get ahead. Palin got ahead by taking on those people.
Well, I was worried a little when I saw McCain's pick. Such an odd, random choice. I supposed that, surely, this woman must be posessed of extraordinary political skills to have been chosen as a foil to Obama. It turns out however, that I needn't have worried, as I've discovered by reviewing some footage of this person speaking on camera.
Here: have a look. Is this a person with the rhetorical skill and knowledge of issues to make her a convincing alternative to Obama or Biden? Ask yourself. Does she seem particulary interested in or impressed by McCain?
Many of you Republicans havebeen doing a fine job convinving yourselves that Palin is a great choice, either as an acutally qualified candidate ("She handled the municipal payroll for a town almost half the size of Rantoul! For six years! So what if she didn't even have a vote on the village council!), or at least as a David Brooks demographic masterstroke, who can serve to supply the sentimental tinsel and windowdressing that the Republican base loves (Moose! Guns! Snowmobiles! Christian fundantalism!). But I'm not sure how long you'll be able to keep it up.
I have to say, again, that I was a little worried at first, since it does seem true enough that there really is a tiny splinter of ex-Hillary supporters who are confused and dull-witted enough to give McCain a look following Hillary's defeat. And in a close election, every tiny deranged splinter counts.
Fortunately, it turns out this person--Palin--is sort of a nut-job who will turn out to be a weak vote-getter at best. It wasn't so long ago that Republicans ridiculed John Kerry for choosing "Breck Girl" John Edwards as a running-mate, despite not knowing him too well personally. Well, now the ailing McCain as picked an even younger, prettier, and more empty-headed vp than the embarrassing Mr. Edwards. She will not be an asset come November.
+++++
p.s. Charming how Dan Fielding in this thread tried to spin Palin as a reformer who "went up against" corrupt senator Ted Stevens. Mr Fielding didn't mention however, this video endorsment Palin recieved from Stevens, standing at his side with a huge grin. Whoops.
How many treaties have Obama or Biden negotiated again? Oh that's right, 0.
And the reason Dems don't think Palin will draw women votetrs is because they don't believe you are a real woman until you've had an abortion.
If palin is good enough for women like prairie biker, then that's good enough for me.
champaign resident... first off, the issues with Stevens and the corruption charges came up later. While it's ironic that the man once supported her... the fact that she will go after her own party members for corruption, even ones that endorsed her, is a sure sign she's anti-cronyism. And while you criticize her for simply being a mayor of a small town, when compared to be a legislator of a small chunk of Chicago who votes 'present' a lot, it's obvious which one actually involves some executive and managment experience... and which one doesn't. And while you cherry pick the small town, you leave out that she's been Governor of Alaska for as long as he's been Senator (and not campaigning for President instead of his job) and has 80+% approval rating where she's notorious for cleaning house and bringing actual change.
Obama talks about change, some people bring it. BTW, Obama's not running against her, or some ghost Bush... he's running against McCain, as much as he has to pretend otherwise to come off as a realistic candidate.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
It wasn't so long ago that Republicans ridiculed John Kerry for choosing "Breck Girl"--Really I don't remember that but you must be. Ridiculing her that way don't you think a woman can be VP? She really has done quite well and has taken on corruption in her state government and beat sitting governors as well as well liked Democrats. I know you may not like her because she is a republican but too attack her just because she is a she seems pretty low to me.
Kevin that is great!!! :)
It will be an interesting election Obama is the most liberal US senator in the United State Senate and Biden is the third most Liberal senator. Hillary maybe the only one in the car who has been involved in doing anything remotely conservative Welfare reform.
McCain is somewhat Conservative and Palin is a Conservative.
So the American voter has a choice between a very liberal Democratic ticket and a republican balanced Conservative ticket. I don't think the voters are going to choose that liberal of an administration.
The car is really cool, funny though Obama and Biden didn't look like that after McCains pick came out they kind of looked like those presidents on those dollar bills they were talking about, alittle green.
"...they kind of looked like those presidents on those dollar bills they were talking about, alittle green."
Ha!
Kevin... I liked the visual commentary there. I also like the fact that Palin is an avid life long hunter and all... but I'll kind of miss having a VP that shoots lawyers. ;-)
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Glock21 Op/Ed
"Charming how Dan Fielding in this thread tried to spin Palin as a reformer who 'went up against' corrupt senator Ted Stevens. Mr Fielding didn't mention however, this video endorsment Palin recieved from Stevens, standing at his side with a huge grin. Whoops."
The fact she still went up against him, and he is likely to lose in November because of it, speaks volumes. Whoops indeed.
Palin may very well draw women voters. However, I seriously doubt she will draw many Hillary supporters, simply due to the difference in politics.
And I still do not consider enforcing existing regulations to be sure that your boats stay on your side of various lines and limit catch to X number of Y species to be "dealing with foreign entities." I don't consider it such for the people in Hokkaido either, if that's an issue. I'm not harping on any need for experience, so it's fine either way, I just find the claim amusing. Drawing the lines is what's interesting, and that happens at the national cabinet level. (For what it's worth, I've not heard Palin herself reference such experience anyway, so it's sort of moot. I should not have implied that SHE was puffing anything up personally.)
As for Obama's Biden pick, it's not impossible for a "Washington insider" to still desire change in new policies, so it doesn't entirely kill the ability for the Obama ticket to be "for change," but yes I DO agree that he pretty much nullifies any possibility of the ticket appealing to "Washington outsider" status, absolutely.
Palin's reformer image, from what I read, is genuine. It's a sincerely good feature.
akibare... I think the only former Hillary supporters she might help attract were some of the ones already considering a McCain vote anyways. Reagan democrats and conservative/moderate/hawkish democrats. While I doubt he'll get all of the ones recently polled since there's obviously a reason they were considering Hillary first... and some of those difference will lead them to stay home or stay with their party. And for the most part I think it'll help those on the fence between those options... McCain or staying home... give the ticket a second look, and perhaps find it a reasonable compromise.
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Glock21 Op/Ed
It will be an interesting election Obama is the most liberal US senator in the United State Senate and Biden is the third most Liberal senator.
:D It's nice to see Fox News fabrications still work on SOMEBODY. The OBAMA=MOST LIBERAL is a pretty easy myth to dispel.
Are there any thinking conservatives who want to enlighten our friend?
It's also funny that Akibare has given Japan's perspective on the pick about a half dozen times and there are still people clinging to the notion that she's somehow a massive international negotiator because there are some treaties between the countries which in