On July 6th, 2009 at 01:14 PM, Ezra (not verified) said:
This is indeed quite a letter. My reaction after reading it is "how pathetic!" It is hard to believe that so many law school professors could be so out of touch with common morality and decency. Maybe lawyers really are the amoral cretins that they're commonly portrayed.
If, indeed, the University administrators are merely victims to be pitied rather than chastised for their admission of lesser qualified students with clout over more deserving students, it would be easier to sympathize if they hadn't acted so much like they were engaged in a criminal enterprise. If, really, all universities do the same thing, then why not be above-board about it? Why admit the ones with special clout after the high school academic year, so as to cause less stink from the more highly-qualified who were passed over?
If this really is standard operating procedure, not worthy of the Tribune front page, why wasn't the University upfront about what it does? It could have put a note in their handbook for applicants: "Notice, for top priority in admissions, please submit a recommendation from a powerful politician."
On July 6th, 2009 at 02:15 PM, Champaign Dweller said:
They do, however, have a point that seems to be missing--where is the outrage over what the politicians have done? Where is the demand for explanations and accountability for those who asked that the University accord their friends and relatives special treatment? The University should have said no, but the Board, Governor and others should not have asked in the first place.
On July 6th, 2009 at 04:01 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
It is truly sad to think that the faculty of our law school sets the bar for the ethics of public officials so low. Of course there is political pressure; always has been, probably always will be. The issue is how a public official deals with it. These are public servants we are talking about (bureaucrats if you like) not "...after all academics - mathematicians, philosophers (!), business scholars..."
Public servants owe the public not only competence and diligence but moral courage. Part of the job is fending off improper political influence. It takes a lot of resourcefulness and a clarity about personal ethics to do this. Isn't that part of why they get paid as well as they do.? Why should we expect less of the Chancellor of a university than we expect of a municipal Zoning Administrator?
The authors claim the "line between proper and improper influence on admissions decisions is a difficult one to draw...". That is utter rubbish. There is an established system. Letters of reference are part of it and it should be fine for anyone to provide one. Contacts regarding applicants outside of that process are wrong - period. This is simple ex parte contact and can only serve to undermine a rule guided process for distributing a scarce resource.
I do agree that anger should also be directed at politicians and especially at the trustees who were involved but that does not let the administrators off the hook by any means. Is this the best defense these folks have; to point the finger at others?
The larger problem is the whole culture of "constituent service" whereby the pushy feel entitled to call upon politicians when they don't like the way the system works. What we need to do is build and rebuild a bulwark against this penny ante corruption. What's at stake is the rule of law.
On July 6th, 2009 at 04:11 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
We expect politicians to be corrupt... Niveristy orofessors should know beeter, especially law professors who, among other things, teach ethics.
They should all be fired and the law school shuttered.
On July 6th, 2009 at 08:20 PM, curious said:
Amazing letter. These guys just don't get it.
On July 7th, 2009 at 06:30 AM, matthew peek said:
I beg to differ. They do get it. While I disagree with their judgemental attitude toward the Trib in the second half of the letter, the first half is right on the mark. Special Admissions are the price schools (all schools) have to pay to curry favor with lawmakers. Hopefully no one is admitted who is below the minimum requirements, but that's how the process works. Ideally any punk kid who had to pull strings just to get in will fail out anyway.
All this talk of ousting Herman and White over this is ridiculous. These two men are positively brilliant and are two of the best things to happen to our community in the last decade. Herman is so tuned in to the climate of central Illinois it's just amazing to talk with him. The positive impact the University has had on our area under the leadership of these men will bring us rewards for many many years to come. Their vision is amazing and it's a breath of fresh air.
--------
*edited to correct misspelling
On July 7th, 2009 at 01:51 AM, Dan Fielding said:
"It is hard to believe that so many law school professors could be so out of touch with common morality and decency."
Boggle.
On July 7th, 2009 at 09:20 AM, pattsi said:
What perplexes me after reading the N-G this AM and Herman's statement that he felt pressure is why these very highly paid administrators and dean did not meet, discuss how to handle this increasing admission/clout pressure that had grown over the years, and "circle the wagons" for a unified front, including the administration of UIS and UIC even though these schools probably do not get as much admission pressure. The letter signed by many members of the Law School faculty and the letter signed by almost all of the endowed professors on campus in the 7 July N-G seem to skirt the issue as to why the higher administration did not stand firm. (It would be interesting to search out how many of these professors had been put into the endowed positions under Herman as Provost and Chancellor.) It does not appear that giving in has helped the level of state funding for the university over the years since this has been on a downward curve for decades. On the other hand, maybe the back story is that these people did meet and discuss how to handle the increasing political pressure and maybe consulted with our peer universities as to how such admissions are handled. These people meet at higher education administrator conferences.
Pattsi Petrie
On July 7th, 2009 at 10:05 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
I don't understand Herman/White/et al.'s feeling "the pressure" from politicians, the B.O.T., and Chinese governors to admit their preferred students. Does the money donated to the U of I, or voted upon in the legislature, really depend on these "little nudges" in the admit process? Why would Herman and White feel they better go along "or else"?
Couldn't Herman and White have just outted the names of the politicos and big wigs when funding was jeopardized by these "G's"? Or is the electorate too lazy to be relied upon and vote incumbants the heck out for extracting such priviledges?
Or was the Banner computer system, the Global Campus, and the capital building frenzy on the campus for the last ten years have these distinguished administrators more concerned about showing them the money than with academic intergrity? Amission per year is what? 7000 freshmen and 11,000 applications annually get rejected? How can 120 or so clouted students make all the difference whether the U of I can build another gymnasium for the kiddies?
I wonder, too, if the U of I administrators, and admission deans can be held legally liable for out-of-state tuition fees by the qualified students who were rejected at the in-state university in favor of one of Blago's rich-kid scholars. Maybe if Steve Beckett's kid had been forced to select an out-of-state school, or a school of lessor reputation- we might see Herman being served some papers from the law office.
And speaking of legal talent, they should print that letter from the profs on the Law School admission brochure so prospective students can see what the moral ethics are of their teachers: "It's not wrong if everybody does it and alot of money depends on it. Those stupid media people. Boo. Hiss." (Maybe Chapin Rose can get legislation passed that declares all admission records from the tax-supported school be declared private information and not subject to The Freedom of Information Act. That'll solve this mess.)
There was a funny moment on WDWS today when Steve Kelly, the sports broadcaster, was asked if he knew the admission standards for the college athletes. Steve choked out a polite, "I don't pay attention to the admissions side of the program." If only that big bad Chicago Tribune had minded its own business and did the same.
On July 7th, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
I had the occaision to overhear the lunch time conversion of a half dozen university faculty. You may cheered to know that many facultly members, at least in the hard sciences, do have higher ethical standards than those found in the law school. They weren't buying any of the excuses.
On July 7th, 2009 at 04:43 PM, JohnBoy said:
I broke down and bought the expensive TRIB , this morning, just to read the coverage. I don't think MIKVA was impressed with HERMAN and HURD's characterization as, " sarcasm" when discussing a candidate. Guess, the... Gee, it's just a joke defense doesn't work. I wonder what the break point is, when pubic officials began to believe they are above any type of moral ethics? 75K,150K.....
On July 7th, 2009 at 05:33 PM, Champaign Dweller said:
One thing I noticed, however, was that at least Herman didn't try to deny these things happened. I have to admit, while I thought his request might have been real, I did read Dean Hurd's responses as sarcastic. Still not a great day for the law school, in any event.
On July 7th, 2009 at 06:33 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
I agree that the investigation so far has not focused on the people who are the most at fault, the legislators, donors, and trustees, but Herman never once stood up to any of these folks. There has been a total lack of backbone in dealing with the poor judgement and bad behavior of the trustees. There is little excuse for never even attempting to stand your ground.
On July 8th, 2009 at 08:56 AM, T,J, and the AW (not verified) said:
The law professors AND the other professors responses make me sick.
Whine to a cop on the Interstate that "Everyone else is speeding, too, why pick on me?".
Or, "it's not my fault, the car was built so it would go fast and the politicians enabled me by building good roads".
Bah. Either you stand up for what's right, or you don't, but making childish excuses for miscreant behavior, especially white collar behavior, is disgusting.
Toss the amoral bums out, bring in people who stand for truth and doing the right thing in the face of adversity.
You all know that if this was the U of Michigan you would all be all over this with glee.
On July 8th, 2009 at 09:55 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
I wonder to what extent this extraordinary missive by the Law School faculty derives from a warped sense of academic freedom. After all universities are supposed to be independent of outside influence (heh). That implies that "academics" (their word) really ought not to be judged by anyone other than other academics. These scholars can be held liable for major crimes like plagiarism or uttering an ethnicity or gender insenstive remark but who are we - mere taxpayers - to hold these "academeics" to account for something as trivial as the fair distribution of scarce spaces in the university we pay for.
They are caught in a bind here. I'm sure they hate this interference with admissions but they also hate being held accountable to anyone outside the university for anything.
On July 8th, 2009 at 10:22 AM, JohnBoy said:
These, " learned" fellows are just protecting their interests. When HERMAN returns with a tiny rebuke.....he'll remember the names on the letter and rewards will flow......
On July 8th, 2009 at 02:24 PM, CC94U said:
The letter from the law professors deserves a barf alert. I couldn't get halfway through it without gagging on the logic that says favoritism is okay so long as it is used to secure funds to benefit students who wounldn't get those funds if politicians' kids weren't favored. In other words, the ends justifies the means.
The U of I got caught on the down low. Face it. Be ashamed of it. Of course the politicians should be ashamed. But they won't be. The State of Illinois has been run like a third-world mess for years. We Illinoisans have come to expect that--some of us are just tired of accepting it.
On July 9th, 2009 at 04:58 AM, Anonymous (not verified) said:
Former Law Dean Heidi Hurd says she inherited a "well greased, well oiled" system for admitting students with political clout back in 2002.
I wonder if John Gadau will buy 4 billboards with the caption, "Clout this administrators: pack your bags."
This is indeed quite a letter. My reaction after reading it is "how pathetic!" It is hard to believe that so many law school professors could be so out of touch with common morality and decency. Maybe lawyers really are the amoral cretins that they're commonly portrayed.
If, indeed, the University administrators are merely victims to be pitied rather than chastised for their admission of lesser qualified students with clout over more deserving students, it would be easier to sympathize if they hadn't acted so much like they were engaged in a criminal enterprise. If, really, all universities do the same thing, then why not be above-board about it? Why admit the ones with special clout after the high school academic year, so as to cause less stink from the more highly-qualified who were passed over?
If this really is standard operating procedure, not worthy of the Tribune front page, why wasn't the University upfront about what it does? It could have put a note in their handbook for applicants: "Notice, for top priority in admissions, please submit a recommendation from a powerful politician."
They do, however, have a point that seems to be missing--where is the outrage over what the politicians have done? Where is the demand for explanations and accountability for those who asked that the University accord their friends and relatives special treatment? The University should have said no, but the Board, Governor and others should not have asked in the first place.
It is truly sad to think that the faculty of our law school sets the bar for the ethics of public officials so low. Of course there is political pressure; always has been, probably always will be. The issue is how a public official deals with it. These are public servants we are talking about (bureaucrats if you like) not "...after all academics - mathematicians, philosophers (!), business scholars..."
Public servants owe the public not only competence and diligence but moral courage. Part of the job is fending off improper political influence. It takes a lot of resourcefulness and a clarity about personal ethics to do this. Isn't that part of why they get paid as well as they do.? Why should we expect less of the Chancellor of a university than we expect of a municipal Zoning Administrator?
The authors claim the "line between proper and improper influence on admissions decisions is a difficult one to draw...". That is utter rubbish. There is an established system. Letters of reference are part of it and it should be fine for anyone to provide one. Contacts regarding applicants outside of that process are wrong - period. This is simple ex parte contact and can only serve to undermine a rule guided process for distributing a scarce resource.
I do agree that anger should also be directed at politicians and especially at the trustees who were involved but that does not let the administrators off the hook by any means. Is this the best defense these folks have; to point the finger at others?
The larger problem is the whole culture of "constituent service" whereby the pushy feel entitled to call upon politicians when they don't like the way the system works. What we need to do is build and rebuild a bulwark against this penny ante corruption. What's at stake is the rule of law.
We expect politicians to be corrupt... Niveristy orofessors should know beeter, especially law professors who, among other things, teach ethics.
They should all be fired and the law school shuttered.
Amazing letter. These guys just don't get it.
I beg to differ. They do get it. While I disagree with their judgemental attitude toward the Trib in the second half of the letter, the first half is right on the mark. Special Admissions are the price schools (all schools) have to pay to curry favor with lawmakers. Hopefully no one is admitted who is below the minimum requirements, but that's how the process works. Ideally any punk kid who had to pull strings just to get in will fail out anyway.
All this talk of ousting Herman and White over this is ridiculous. These two men are positively brilliant and are two of the best things to happen to our community in the last decade. Herman is so tuned in to the climate of central Illinois it's just amazing to talk with him. The positive impact the University has had on our area under the leadership of these men will bring us rewards for many many years to come. Their vision is amazing and it's a breath of fresh air.
--------
*edited to correct misspelling
"It is hard to believe that so many law school professors could be so out of touch with common morality and decency."
Boggle.
What perplexes me after reading the N-G this AM and Herman's statement that he felt pressure is why these very highly paid administrators and dean did not meet, discuss how to handle this increasing admission/clout pressure that had grown over the years, and "circle the wagons" for a unified front, including the administration of UIS and UIC even though these schools probably do not get as much admission pressure. The letter signed by many members of the Law School faculty and the letter signed by almost all of the endowed professors on campus in the 7 July N-G seem to skirt the issue as to why the higher administration did not stand firm. (It would be interesting to search out how many of these professors had been put into the endowed positions under Herman as Provost and Chancellor.) It does not appear that giving in has helped the level of state funding for the university over the years since this has been on a downward curve for decades. On the other hand, maybe the back story is that these people did meet and discuss how to handle the increasing political pressure and maybe consulted with our peer universities as to how such admissions are handled. These people meet at higher education administrator conferences.
Pattsi Petrie
I don't understand Herman/White/et al.'s feeling "the pressure" from politicians, the B.O.T., and Chinese governors to admit their preferred students. Does the money donated to the U of I, or voted upon in the legislature, really depend on these "little nudges" in the admit process? Why would Herman and White feel they better go along "or else"?
Couldn't Herman and White have just outted the names of the politicos and big wigs when funding was jeopardized by these "G's"? Or is the electorate too lazy to be relied upon and vote incumbants the heck out for extracting such priviledges?
Or was the Banner computer system, the Global Campus, and the capital building frenzy on the campus for the last ten years have these distinguished administrators more concerned about showing them the money than with academic intergrity? Amission per year is what? 7000 freshmen and 11,000 applications annually get rejected? How can 120 or so clouted students make all the difference whether the U of I can build another gymnasium for the kiddies?
I wonder, too, if the U of I administrators, and admission deans can be held legally liable for out-of-state tuition fees by the qualified students who were rejected at the in-state university in favor of one of Blago's rich-kid scholars. Maybe if Steve Beckett's kid had been forced to select an out-of-state school, or a school of lessor reputation- we might see Herman being served some papers from the law office.
And speaking of legal talent, they should print that letter from the profs on the Law School admission brochure so prospective students can see what the moral ethics are of their teachers: "It's not wrong if everybody does it and alot of money depends on it. Those stupid media people. Boo. Hiss." (Maybe Chapin Rose can get legislation passed that declares all admission records from the tax-supported school be declared private information and not subject to The Freedom of Information Act. That'll solve this mess.)
There was a funny moment on WDWS today when Steve Kelly, the sports broadcaster, was asked if he knew the admission standards for the college athletes. Steve choked out a polite, "I don't pay attention to the admissions side of the program." If only that big bad Chicago Tribune had minded its own business and did the same.
I had the occaision to overhear the lunch time conversion of a half dozen university faculty. You may cheered to know that many facultly members, at least in the hard sciences, do have higher ethical standards than those found in the law school. They weren't buying any of the excuses.
I broke down and bought the expensive TRIB , this morning, just to read the coverage. I don't think MIKVA was impressed with HERMAN and HURD's characterization as, " sarcasm" when discussing a candidate. Guess, the... Gee, it's just a joke defense doesn't work. I wonder what the break point is, when pubic officials began to believe they are above any type of moral ethics? 75K,150K.....
One thing I noticed, however, was that at least Herman didn't try to deny these things happened. I have to admit, while I thought his request might have been real, I did read Dean Hurd's responses as sarcastic. Still not a great day for the law school, in any event.
I agree that the investigation so far has not focused on the people who are the most at fault, the legislators, donors, and trustees, but Herman never once stood up to any of these folks. There has been a total lack of backbone in dealing with the poor judgement and bad behavior of the trustees. There is little excuse for never even attempting to stand your ground.
The law professors AND the other professors responses make me sick.
Whine to a cop on the Interstate that "Everyone else is speeding, too, why pick on me?".
Or, "it's not my fault, the car was built so it would go fast and the politicians enabled me by building good roads".
Bah. Either you stand up for what's right, or you don't, but making childish excuses for miscreant behavior, especially white collar behavior, is disgusting.
Toss the amoral bums out, bring in people who stand for truth and doing the right thing in the face of adversity.
You all know that if this was the U of Michigan you would all be all over this with glee.
I wonder to what extent this extraordinary missive by the Law School faculty derives from a warped sense of academic freedom. After all universities are supposed to be independent of outside influence (heh). That implies that "academics" (their word) really ought not to be judged by anyone other than other academics. These scholars can be held liable for major crimes like plagiarism or uttering an ethnicity or gender insenstive remark but who are we - mere taxpayers - to hold these "academeics" to account for something as trivial as the fair distribution of scarce spaces in the university we pay for.
They are caught in a bind here. I'm sure they hate this interference with admissions but they also hate being held accountable to anyone outside the university for anything.
These, " learned" fellows are just protecting their interests. When HERMAN returns with a tiny rebuke.....he'll remember the names on the letter and rewards will flow......
The letter from the law professors deserves a barf alert. I couldn't get halfway through it without gagging on the logic that says favoritism is okay so long as it is used to secure funds to benefit students who wounldn't get those funds if politicians' kids weren't favored. In other words, the ends justifies the means.
The U of I got caught on the down low. Face it. Be ashamed of it. Of course the politicians should be ashamed. But they won't be. The State of Illinois has been run like a third-world mess for years. We Illinoisans have come to expect that--some of us are just tired of accepting it.
Former Law Dean Heidi Hurd says she inherited a "well greased, well oiled" system for admitting students with political clout back in 2002.
I wonder if John Gadau will buy 4 billboards with the caption, "Clout this administrators: pack your bags."