Open Thread (12/18/2009)

Posted December 18th, 2009 at 07:39 AM by IlliniPundit
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Friday, December 18, 2009.

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the Artichoke's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 08:53 AM, the Artichoke said:

Please keep an eye out and pass the word about Yumi (yoo mee), a pit bull stolen from her owners at Urbana's dog park yesterday. Picture and story found here: http://www.smilepolitely.com/splog/dog_snatched_at_urbanas_dog_park/ Sure hope they get these creeps and that the dog is safe

On December 18th, 2009 at 10:39 AM, AnonymousMe said:

Properly raised pit bulls are really friendly, loving  dogs

redstatewannabe's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 11:59 AM, redstatewannabe said:

Health care (insurance) "reform" is under attack from both sides now - One Cheer for Howard Dean.

This is a point that must be answered:

Putting aside its irrational animus for insurance companies, the Left has a point. The insurance industry wouldn’t support the bill absent the individual mandate. In fact, the mandate is all that stands between the companies and a death spiral. By requiring the companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions, the bill creates an incentive for people to drop insurance until they get sick — unless the state forces them to do otherwise.

You can't require coverage of pre-exisisting conditions and not make insurance mandatory, and neither side likes the insurance mandate. 

What it comes down to is that either you have true universal state-run health care (Medicare for all), or you keep most of the model we have and tweek along the edges (HSA's, cross-state insurance policies, provisions to care for the poor, etc).  Some issues just don't have a logical middle ground.

I'm with Dean - dump the bill.

 

akibare's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 12:12 PM, akibare said:

Yep - that's the whole magic of single-payer national insurance.  Everyone is a member from birth, paying premiums from birth, and so there are no "preexisting conditions" and one single wide pool.   There is no front-end bureaucracy trying to deny people coverage, no means-testing paperwork and churning, you only have to "sign up" the one time, and there is no need for a separate fraud investigation bureaucracy, because the premiums are taxes - it's handled by the IRS.

 

Because the premiums are taxes, they're also sliding scale, not everyone pays the same thing, and no one knows just looking at a person how much they are paying.

 

There are certainly people who don't like the single-payer idea for a variety of reasons, but what gives it the good points that it DOES have is this single unified nature of the thing. 

 

The moment you start tweaking that in the service of maintaining a certain ideology, all the good bits stop working, the efficiency is gone.   

 

On December 18th, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Narc said:

 

What it comes down to is that either you have true universal state-run health care (Medicare for all), or you keep most of the model we have and tweek along the edges (HSA's, cross-state insurance policies, provisions to care for the poor, etc).

By no means. You've got the Swiss system for starters. Health coverage is mandatory, but the basic level of coverage is non-profit. Companies can compete on supplementary packages. There is total freedom to pick your doctor. Who knew Switzerland was full of socialists that hate the free market system?

 

And I have to say I think cross-state insurance is a terrible idea. It's going to lead to an immediate race to the bottom while companies look for the most lenient state they can find. I don't think it's reasonable to expect someone in Illinois with cancer that's had their care denied to sue in Delaware.

On December 18th, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

Health care (insurance) "reform" is under attack from both sides now

When only those in the middle supprot a bill, this means it is a good bill.and should be passed. 

 

mjerryfuerst's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 12:53 PM, mjerryfuerst said:

What does Howard Dean know ?   Is he a physician or something ?  :-)

Michael Fuerst       

My drawings, paintings and photos will be displayed (along with those of Alberto Aguilar and Ryan Gray) at Springer Center (NW corner of Randolph and Church in Champaign) from Dec 2 to Jan 3
I'd be happy to give a  personally guided tour by appointment on  most afternoons or evenings the exhibit is on display.
For exhibit flyer,  http://www.ArtComesFuerst.com
For additional preview, 
    http://www.artcomesfuerst.com/Photos_of_My_Art/index.htm  
    http://the217.com/events/view/2009/12/12/11317

redstatewannabe's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 12:54 PM, redstatewannabe said:

And I have to say I think cross-state insurance is a terrible idea. It's going to lead to an immediate race to the bottom while companies look for the most lenient state they can find

The reduction of coverage mandates doesn't mean your policy has to eliminate the coverages, only that it can.  Employers already provide plenty of benefits that are not mandated, and not everyone buys the required minimum car insurance.

On December 18th, 2009 at 01:18 PM, pattsi said:

Maybe the weather gods will get to work and the snow will be so deep that our famous and infamous legislators will be stuck in the Capitol and just have to talk with each other.  :-)

Pattsi Petrie

On December 18th, 2009 at 01:25 PM, Anonymous (not verified) said:

It looks like what is coming down the chute is best the health insurance legislation that the health insurance industry could buy.

We, the consumers, are about to get shafted by being mandated to buy a sub-standard, often unaffordable product that retains nearly none of the promised improvements.

I can see why Republicans are against it for their own iedological, often petty reasons. I really can't see why any smart Democrat would be for it. It's a poison pill that mandates death panels run by the insurance industry -- which is pretty much what we have now for those who can actually afford insurance.

redstatewannabe's picture
On December 18th, 2009 at 01:27 PM, redstatewannabe said:

like I said - both sides are against it.  Only Dems Congressmen wanting to pass something just to pass something (and so Obama can say he did it) like this idea.

 

Local Voter's picture
On December 19th, 2009 at 07:50 AM, Local Voter said:

None of the Congressmen are earning their salaries as has been the case for years.

On December 19th, 2009 at 10:04 AM, xian said:

It's to the point that we are clearly incapable as Americans of doing this properly. We should just adopt a working system from another country.

 

Dan Fielding's picture
On December 21st, 2009 at 10:37 PM, Dan Fielding said:

I like it because Louisiana and Nebraska get goodies the other forty-eight were too stupid to.

Oil Man's picture
On December 22nd, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Oil Man said:

Dan's response typifies most voters especially in Illinois as it gives license to our political representatives to develop  governments which run on greed and special interests rather the public good.  Great example Dan---Thanks.